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Friday, August 04, 2023

Alleged Talmud Quotes (1/2)

I saw an anti-Semitic meme with "Talmud quotes" being shared a few times with suspiciously convenient quotes, and decided to dig into it.

Surprise surprise, the quotes mostly range from misquoted to out of context to completely made up.

Of course, being told this won't convince anti-Semites (they get upset when I point out the 109 countries claim is nonsensical), but hey it's material for this blog.

First I shall post the text of the meme. Then I shall dig into the verses:

"(Soferim 15)
Even the best of Goyim should all be killed.

(Yebamoth 98a)
All children of Goyim are animals.

(Baba Mezia 114b)
Gentiles 'Goys' are not humans, they are beasts.

(Gad Shas 2:2)
A Jew may violate but not marry a non Jew girl.

(Abodah Zarah 36b)
Gentile 'Goy' girls are in a state at niddah (filth) from birth.

(Sanhedrin 54b)
A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

(Eben Haezar 6,9)
All non-Jewish are prostitutes.

(Sanhedrin 58b)
If a Goy hits a Jew he must be killed.

(Sanhedrin 57a)
When a Jew murders a gentile there will be no death penalty.

(Tospoth Jebamoth 84b)
If you eat with a Goy is the same as eating with a dog.

(Baba Mezia 24a)
If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile 'Goy' it does not have to be returned.

(Abodah Zarah 22a-22b)
Gentiles 'Goys' prefer sex with cows.

(Baba Kamma 113a)
Jews may use lies to circumvent a 'Goy' Gentile.

(Sanhedrin 19)
Every place the Jews go. they must become commanders of their lords.

(Libbre David 87)
If Gentiles knew that the Talmud teach Jews to destroy them they would kill us openly. Never communicate the Talmud with Gentiles.

(Kethuboth 11b)
When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.

(Bammidber raba c21)
Every Jew who spills the blood of the non-Jew is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God.

(Hikkoth Akum X1)
Show no mercy to the Gentiles.

(Abodah Zara 4b)
a Gentile you may kill outright with your ownhands.

(Sahedrin 59a)
Murdering Gentiles is like killing wild animals.

(Tosefta Abda Zara V111 5)
a Gentile is forbidden to steal, rob or take women slaves from a Jew. But a Jew it's not forbidden to do all this to a Gentile.

(Simeon Haddarsen fol 56-D:0)
When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 Gentiles slaves.

(Midrasch Talpioth p225—L)
Non-Jews are in human term so that Jews would not be served by beasts. Non-Jew is an animal in human lenn to serve the Jew day and night.

(Schulchan Aruch Chozen Hamiszpat 156)
Property of the Gentile belongs to no one and the first Jew that passes has full right to seim it.

(Tosefta Abda Zara V111 5)
a Gentile is forbidden to steal, rob or take women slaves from a Jew. But a Jew it's not forbidden to do all this to a Gentile.

(Schulchan Amen Chozen Hamisszpat 348)
All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation. Jews can seize it all.

*Anti-Semitic Caricature of Jew rubbing hands*
Never Communicate The Talmud With Gentiles"

(Soferim 15)
Even the best of Goyim should all be killed."

This seems to be referring to:

"R. Simeon b. Yoḥai taught: Kill the best of the heathens in time of war"

We can see that some crucial words have been left out.

Note too that the Masekhet Soferim is considered non-canonical.

(Yebamoth 98a)
All children of Goyim are animals.

Yevamot 98a is talking about the rules of conversion and marriage, and when people are considered related to each other. This line seems to be a misquote of:

"It is written with regard to Egyptians: “Whose flesh is the flesh of donkeys, and whose semen is the semen of horses” (Ezekiel 23:20), i.e., the offspring of a male gentile is considered no more related to him than the offspring of donkeys and horses."

(Baba Mezia 114b)
Gentiles 'Goys' are not humans, they are beasts.

Bava Metzia 114b is talking about purity with regard to Jewish rituals. The exact line should be:

"Rabbi Shimon ben Yoḥai says that the graves of gentiles do not render one impure, as it is stated: “And you, My sheep, the sheep of My pasture, are man” (Ezekiel 34:31), which teaches that you, i.e., the Jewish people, are called “man,” but gentiles are not called “man.” Since the Torah states with regard to ritual impurity imparted in a tent: “If a man dies in a tent” (Numbers 19:14), evidently impurity imparted by a tent does not apply to gentiles. "

(Gad Shas 2:2)
A Jew may violate but not marry a non Jew girl.

This is completely fake. "Gad Shas" does not exist.

(Abodah Zarah 36b)
Gentile 'Goy' girls are in a state at niddah (filth) from birth.

"Niddah" is not translated as "filth". A woman is "niddah" when she is menstruating.

The actual quote is:

"The court of the Hasmoneans decreed that a Jew who engaged in intercourse with a gentile woman bears liability for transgressing four prohibitions, represented by the mnemonic: Nun, shin, gimmel, alef. These letters stands for: Menstruating woman [nidda], maidservant [shifḥa], gentile [goya], and married woman [eshet ish]. By rabbinic law, a man who engages in intercourse with a gentile woman is considered to have violated the prohibitions involved in having intercourse with all four of these women."

I would imagine that anti-Semites would actually approve of this line, since they don't want Jewish men having sex with non-Jewish women.

(Sanhedrin 54b)
A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Sanhedrin 54b talks about punishing homosexuality and bestiality with stoning (i.e. death), and the threshold of consent. The full verse is:

"The Sages taught: With regard to intercourse with a male, the Torah does not deem a younger boy to be like an older boy...

The Gemara asks: What does it mean that the Torah does not deem a younger boy to be like an older boy? Rav says: It means that the Torah does not deem the intercourse of one who is less than nine years old to be like the intercourse of one who is at least nine years old, as for a male’s act of intercourse to have the legal status of full-fledged intercourse the minimum age is nine years. And Shmuel says: The Torah does not deem the intercourse of a child who is less than three years old to be like that of one who is three years old...

Therefore, just as one who engages in intercourse actively is not liable if he is less than nine years old, as the intercourse of such a child does not have the halakhic status of intercourse, so too, if a child who is less than nine years old engages in homosexual intercourse passively, the one who engages in intercourse with him is not liable."

While having homosexual sex with a boy under nine is not punishable by death, apparently this does not mean there're no penalties - they're just not death.

(Eben Haezar 6,9)
All non-Jewish are prostitutes.

Even HaEzar 6 is talking about Kohen (priests) and the women forbidden to them. Here is the full quote:

"Who is deemed a "zonah" [who is forbidden to a kohen]? Whoever is not a Jewess, or who is a Jewess that had sexual relations with a man to whom she is forbidden to marry in a generally applicable prohibition, or who had sexual relations with a "cholol" (the child of a kohen and a woman who was forbidden to the kohen), even though she is permitted to be married to this man."

"Zonah" can refer to prostitutes, but in this context clearly refers to a woman who has had a specific type of sex.

(Sanhedrin 58b)
If a Goy hits a Jew he must be killed.

The quote is "Rabbi Ḥanina says: A gentile who struck a Jew is liable to receive the death penalty, as it is stated when Moses saw an Egyptian striking a Hebrew: “And he turned this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he struck the Egyptian and hid him in the sand” (Exodus 2:12)."

So we finally have one accurate quote.

(Sanhedrin 57a)
When a Jew murders a gentile there will be no death penalty.

This bit is part of rabbinical musing, and the full answer is more complicated. Here is the full quote:

"The Gemara challenges: But wherever there is liability for capital punishment, this tanna teaches it; as it is taught in the first clause: With regard to bloodshed, if a gentile murders another gentile, or a gentile murders a Jew, he is liable. If a Jew murders a gentile, he is exempt. Evidently, the term liable is used in the baraita.

The Gemara answers: There, in that case, how should the tanna teach it? Should he teach it using the terms prohibited and permitted, indicating that a Jew may kill a gentile ab initio? But isn’t it taught in a baraita that with regard to a gentile, and likewise with regard to Jewish shepherds of small livestock, who were typically robbers, one may not raise them out of a pit into which they fell, and one may not lower them into a pit? In other words, one may not rescue them from danger, but neither may one kill them ab initio."

So the final answer seems to be that while there is no death penalty, it's still not something you should be doing.

(Tospoth Jebamoth 84b)
If you eat with a Goy is the same as eating with a dog.

This is completely fake. "Tospoth Jebamoth" does not exist.

(Baba Mezia 24a)
If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile 'Goy' it does not have to be returned.

This is misquoted. The actual quote is:

"In a case when one found a lost item in a city where both Jews and gentiles reside, if the city has a majority of Jews he is obligated to proclaim his find. If there is a majority of gentiles he is not obligated to proclaim his find."

(Abodah Zarah 22a-22b)
Gentiles 'Goys' prefer sex with cows.

I couldn't find something like this. The mentions I find of gentiles and bestiality are:

"A gentile protects and thereby spares his own animal so that it will not become barren. Since an act of bestiality may cause an animal to become barren, there is no concern that the gentile engaged in immoral behavior with it. Therefore, one may use an animal purchased from a gentile as an offering.

The Gemara asks: This works out well with regard to female animals, as they can become barren, but with regard to males, what is there to say? Rav Kahana says: Gentiles also refrain from engaging in bestiality with their male livestock, since doing so deteriorates the animals’ flesh, i.e., it makes them physically weaker...

Their shepherd is fearful of engaging in bestiality with the animals under his care, due to the forfeit of his wages that would result if this were discovered...

With regard to themselves, i.e., other gentiles, as they are aware of each other’s actions, they are fearful that they may be caught, and therefore will not engage in bestiality with an animal belonging to another gentile. But with regard to ourselves, Jews, as we are not aware of them and their behavior, they are not fearful of us...

With regard to female animals with females, what is the reason that we do not permit them to be secluded with each other? Mar Ukva bar Ḥama says: It is because gentiles frequent the wives of others, and on occasion the gentile does not find her, and he finds the animal and engages in bestiality with it instead.

And if you wish, say instead: Even when he finds the wife, he also engages in bestiality with the animal, as the Master said: The animal of a Jew is more appealing to gentiles than their own wives"

So apparently, gentiles want to have sex with *the animals of Jews*.

Notably, this section also talks about Jews and bestiality, so bestiality is not just a gentile thing:

"Consider that which Rav Yosef teaches: A widow may not raise a dog due to the suspicion that she may engage in bestiality, and she may not allow a student of Torah to dwell as a lodger [be’ushpiza] in her home. Granted, it makes sense that is prohibited for her to have a student of Torah lodging in her home, as he is regarded as discreet in her eyes, so she will not be deterred from sinning with him. But with regard to a dog, since it would follow her around after she mates with it, she is afraid to engage in bestiality with it. Therefore, it should be permitted for her to raise a dog.

The Gemara answers: Since it will also follow her around in a case when she throws it a piece of meat, people will say: The fact that it is following her is due to the meat she threw at it, and they will not suspect her of bestiality. Consequently, she will not be deterred from transgressing."

(Baba Kamma 113a)
Jews may use lies to circumvent a 'Goy' Gentile.

This bit talks about a very particular circumstance - a gentile customs collector. And even then the Talmud does not conclude that skulduggery is justified:

"Rav Ashi said: The mishna issues its ruling with regard to a gentile customs collector, whom one may deceive, as it is taught in a baraita: In the case of a Jew and a gentile who approach the court for judgment in a legal dispute, if you can vindicate the Jew under Jewish law, vindicate him, and say to the gentile: This is our law. If he can be vindicated under gentile law, vindicate him, and say to the gentile: This is your law. And if it is not possible to vindicate him under either system of law, one approaches the case circuitously, seeking a justification to vindicate the Jew. This is the statement of Rabbi Yishmael. Rabbi Akiva disagrees and says: One does not approach the case circuitously in order to vindicate the Jew due to the sanctification of God’s name, as God’s name will be desecrated if the Jewish judge employs dishonest means."

The Talmud does go on later comparing this to all sort of other scenarios, and then trails off.

(Sanhedrin 19)
Every place the Jews go. they must become commanders of their lords.

I can't find anything in Sanhedrin 19 which even resembles this.

(Part 2)

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