Thread by @C_Harwick on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App - "Even in school the math students tended to know more about the humanities than the humanities students."
"I believe this because based on assessments at my university, knowledge in every field has the same rank-order by major. Finance students know the most, in every business field. Marketing students know the least in every field, including marketing.
This also seems like strong firsthand evidence of a signaling over a human capital theory of education. Interesting deep-dive into stratification by major. Apparently psych wasn't always the throwaway major.
Crémieux on X - "When it comes to cognitive tests, something like this is (almost) true! Let's look at some examples, old and new. First, let's go back in time, to the long-forgotten year of 1952. Or really, 1946, since that's the year the sample was gathered in. Wolfle & Oxtoby published an enlightening study on the distribution of ability of students specializing in different fields. Wolfle & Oxtoby gathered this data for the Commission on Human Resources and Advanced Training, since it was a topic of considerable interest at the time whether and how people who picked different majors differed in their abilities. Let's take a look at their results: You can see that, on top, there's a broad physical sciences category, followed by chemistry, then engineering. But then we have what some today might consider a shocker: psychology?! Yes, in the past, psychology was a "smart" major. Psychology then was more biophysics: it was more generally focused on measurement and understanding the mind through things like reaction times and law-like behaviors, and it was far less "social". The field has changed. Nowadays, it's often a washout field. Consider the result reached by Yu, Kuncel & Sackett in 2020. With a longitudinal sample that included nearly a million students at 249 colleges and universities, they observed that most students who majored in psychology didn't initially express an interest in the field. Instead, people who majored in psychology were often people with poor performance in some other area who then transferred into psychology from another major—and in particular, from STEM courses. Now, contrarily, a considerable number of students who did initially express an interest in psychology filtered out of the discipline. These students were often higher-performers: "Students with poorer performance in college often transfer into psychology from majors that may be perceived as difficult (e.g., science, technology, engineering, and math), whereas higher-performing students appear to leave psychology for these same majors, which may also be perceived as more lucrative." But I digress. We're supposed to be talking intelligence-by-major, not how some majors end up with lower or higher levels of measured intelligence. In Wolfle & Oxtoby's study, the physical sciences were above engineering were above humanities were above the biological sciences were above the social sciences were above business were above agriculture were above education. Among 38,420 American college seniors assessed between 1951 and 1967, the order was the same using the Selective Service College Qualification Test: In the Project Talent study, we observe a pretty similar pattern of differences: In this diagram, verbal, spatial, and mathematical test results are given by the initials V, S, and M. Engineers, physical scientists, mathematicians, and computer scientists performed admirably; humanities students performed much worse when it came to intelligence (general ability), and they managed to perform comparably or a bit better in verbal skills. Education majors did very badly. Also take notice of how the V, S, and M means relate differently in the smartest groups. But the Project Talent sample was gathered from 440,000 American high schoolers in 1960. We need more recent data! Using the GRE between 2002 and 2005, we get the same result! Average GRE mathematics and verbal scores were
- 594 for engineers
- 592 for physicists, mathematicians, and computer scientists
- 561 for biological scientists
- 560 for the humanities
- 537 for artists
- 526 for social scientists
- 517 for business majors
- 492 for educators
The gaps between major categories grew considerably over time, as university educations in general became more selective while the content required to earn these majors didn't really drift, so selection among them became far more intense. Just look at the jumps between the hard majors (engineering, physics, mathematics, etc.), biology, and then the arts/social sciences/business, and finally, education. Even more recently ,we have SAT mathematics and verbal results by intended major from 2014. The results are similar: There's a consistent patterning of majors, with some changes over the past few decades that mostly have to do with gap sizes rather than ranks. Overall, the smartest kids are going into exactly the majors you'd intuitively think they would: the hard sciences and other financially lucrative majors. I don't think this reality escapes anyone. People who are honest recognize that those in the "hard" subjects seem to be more capable in general than the people in easier subjects. But anyone looking at this clearly also recognizes this is down to selection that makes total sense for a market society. In fact, this may relate to another phenomenon people often find fascinating: the Flynn effect! In a recent publication, Hermo et al. used Swedish administrative data and, using exams taken at military enlistment (there's a draft) and earnings records from the tax register, the relative returns to logical reasoning skills were observed to increase over time. The returns to logical reasoning skills increased relative to vocabulary knowledge. In Sweden, it's become more valuable to be better at logical reasoning than vocabulary, directly favoring smart people moving into STEM majors if they're motivated by money, as basically everyone is. The changes in returns in this data were actually capable of explaining 37% of the measured increase in reasoning scores, as well as a concomitant decline in vocabulary knowledge. There was even evidence that parents and teachers responded to the labor market and placed greater emphasis on logical reasoning relative to vocabulary knowledge. Let's imagine the cognitive abilities of teachers relate to the quality of their teaching and the impacts they can have on students. Places like Singapore and Finland seem to hold to this belief: they exclusively recruit teachers from the top 30% and 20% of test scorers, respectively. South Korea is even more extreme, recruiting only the top 5%! If these countries are right to do what they do (and the jury is out), the fact that the labor market strongly disincentivizes being a teacher could be a problem, not a source of mere fascination."
The End of the English Major | The New Yorker - "The crisis, when it came, arrived so quickly that its scale was hard to recognize at first. From 2012 to the start of the pandemic, the number of English majors on campus at Arizona State University fell from nine hundred and fifty-three to five hundred and seventy-eight. Records indicate that the number of graduated language and literature majors decreased by roughly half, as did the number of history majors. Women’s studies lost eighty per cent... For decades now, the cost of education has increased over all ahead of inflation. One theory has been that this pressure, plus the growing precariousness of the middle class, has played a role in driving students like him toward hard-skill majors. (English majors, on average, carry less debt than students in other fields, but they take longer to pay it down.) For the decline at A.S.U. is not anomalous... During the past decade, the study of English and history at the collegiate level has fallen by a full third. Humanities enrollment in the United States has declined over all by seventeen per cent, Townsend found. What’s going on? The trend mirrors a global one; four-fifths of countries in the Organization for Economic Coöperation reported falling humanities enrollments in the past decade... For decades, the average proportion of humanities students in every class hovered around fifteen per cent nationally, following the American economy up in boom times and down in bearish periods... Enrollment numbers of the past decade defy these trends, however. When the economy has looked up, humanities enrollments have continued falling. When the markets have wobbled, enrollments have tumbled even more. Today, the roller coaster is in free fall.
There're hints in the article of how the left's long march through the institutions and corruption of the humanities (e.g. Black artists, the canon and clay pigeons) could also be to blame, but this idea isn't really explored
Major Marriage Metrics: How Your Major Affects Your Marriage Rate - "If getting married sooner is your goal, aside from finding the right partner, consider majoring in education, boosting your income, and being a woman, as these factors have shown strong correlations with marriage rates."
The top 10 most-regretted college majors - "Journalism 87%
Sociology 72%
Liberal arts/general studies 72%
Communications 64%
Education 61%
Marketing management + research 60%
Medical/clinical assisting 58%
Political science + government 56%
Biology 52%
English language + literature 52%"
Philosophy Majors Beat Every Other Major On Critical Thinking Tests - "Prinzing and Vazquez compared how students performed when they entered college versus when they graduated, adjusting for differences in ability at the start. The idea is simple: if philosophy students only looked better because they were already stronger thinkers, then accounting for those initial advantages should make them look ordinary. But if philosophy education itself provides benefits, philosophy majors should continue outperforming their peers even after those adjustments... Students with stronger verbal abilities and greater intellectual curiosity were indeed more likely to major in philosophy, confirming that self-selection plays a role. A one standard deviation increase in SAT verbal scores corresponded to 57% greater odds of choosing philosophy as a major. But even after adjusting for these baseline differences, philosophy majors still significantly outperformed students in other disciplines... Philosophy majors also reported stronger intellectual habits during their senior year — such as curiosity, intellectual rigor, and open-mindedness — than non-philosophy majors, even after accounting for differences measured at the freshman year baseline. When researchers ranked all 57 academic majors (with at least 200 students each) on five different measures, philosophy claimed the top spot on three: GRE verbal, LSAT, and intellectual habits. On open-mindedness, philosophy ranked sixth. On GRE quantitative reasoning, philosophy ranked 30th. Mathematics and statistics majors dominated quantitative reasoning, but for skills involving language, logic, and habits of critical thought, philosophy was unmatched."
It's telling that TRAs are so upset at how "transphobic" philosophy is - it's harder to gaslight philosophers. Philosophy is also allegedly unwelcoming to women, but that may be a good thing.
The paper shows how people with different majors perform on the dimensions of LSAT, GRE Verbal, GRE Quantitative, Habits of Mind and Pluralistic Orientation
Are Recent College Graduates Finding Good Jobs? - "we find that recent graduates are increasingly working in low-wage jobs or working part-time... recent research has shown that graduating with a math or science major is more difficult than pursuing other fields of study... We characterize the labor market situation for recent college graduates by looking at three possible labor market outcomes for each graduate: unemployed, employed in a job where a bachelor’s degree is required, and employed in a job where a bachelor’s degree is not required. We then identify the share of recent college graduates in each of the thirteen majors that has experienced each of these outcomes (Chart 7). We find that unemployment rates across majors range from 3 percent to 8 percent. The two majors with the lowest unemployment rates are health majors, at 3 percent, and education majors, at just under 4 percent. Relatively low unemployment rates for these majors likely reflect the stability of the education and health sectors, which grew before, during, and after the Great Recession and thus have tended to provide a growing number of jobs during this period. At the other end of the spectrum, the unemployment rate for architecture and construction majors was 8 percent—a finding consistent with the lack of jobs in housing-related sectors of the economy following the housing bust. Liberal arts and social sciences majors also tended to have relatively high unemployment rates, at 7 to 8 percent. Chart 7 also identifies the share of recent college gradu- ates working in jobs where a bachelor’s degree is required and the share working in jobs where a bachelor’s degree is not required. For example, 75 percent of those with an engineering degree worked in a job that required a college degree. We find that majors providing technical training—that is, training that focuses on quantitative and analytical skills—had the highest shares of graduates working in jobs that require a degree; engi- neering and math and computers majors are cases in point. In addition, education and health majors also had high shares of workers employed in jobs that require a college degree, again likely reflecting the growth of these sectors in recent years. At the other end of the spectrum, leisure and hospitality was the major with the lowest share of graduates working in a job that required a degree. Although degree holders with this major experienced relatively low unemployment, only 33 percent were working in jobs that required a bachelor’s degree, while 63 percent worked in jobs that did not require this degree. It is likely that many of the jobs such graduates took were in the leisure and hospitality industry, and these jobs often do not require a bachelor’s degree. Similarly, only 38 percent of recent graduates with a technologies major— which provides practical training in fields such as electrical and mechanical repairs, radiology, and biological technolo- gies—were working in a job that required a bachelor’s degree. This finding may stem in part from the fact that many of the jobs for people with this type of training often require only an associate’s degree. In addition, many of the majors that provide general training—that is, training that is not occupation- specific or highly technical in nature—also ranked relatively low on this dimension. In particular, only 40 to 45 percent of recent college graduates majoring in communications, liberal arts, business, and social sciences were working in jobs that required a degree... An important caveat about this interpretation is that the links we show between college major, unemployment, and underemployment are not necessarily causal. That is, the data may in part reflect the fact that people can sort into majors based on their skill level, such that those with higher innate skills and abilities select majors that tend to have better labor market outcomes."
Meme - i/o @rational_wiki: "Unsurprisingly, conservativism is associated with majors that tend to be more practical, potentially lucrative, and are less subjective and idealistic than those associated with liberalism."
"Figure 4: Effects of College Majors on Political Ideology"
The toolbelt generation: Why teens are losing faith in college - "Junior Achievement and Citizen polled 1,000 teenagers between the ages of 13 and 18 in July. Roughly half, or 49%, believe a high school degree, trade program, two-year degree or other type of enrichment program is the highest level of education needed for their anticipated career path. Even more, 56%, believe that real world and on-the-job experience is more beneficial than obtaining a higher education degree... Now, 86% of U.S. workers with education debt said their degree wasn’t worth the toll that student loans has had on their overall well-being. Further, 53% of workers said that knowing they would incur additional debt has prevented them from pursuing more education... Over 2012 to 2021, the number of registered apprentices rose 64%, according to data from the U.S. Department of Labor, especially in industries such as construction, public administration and education. From 2022 to 2023, alone, enrollment in vocational programs jumped 16%, the National Student Clearinghouse found. A shortage of skilled tradespeople, due to experienced workers aging out of the field, is also boosting the number of job opportunities and pay... Federal data also shows that trade school students are more likely to be employed after school than their degree-seeking counterparts — and much more likely to work in a job related to their field of study."
