Why china town veggies so cheap? What's the catch? : r/askTO - "They pay less for lower-tier (ie. later-in-the-day) access at the Ontario Food Terminal and then those savings are passed onto the consumer. The catch is that sometimes the produce left for them is marginal as all the good stuff is gone, so you typically have to use what you buy from them in 1-2 days. If you buy from the major grocers that pays for first-access at the OFT, you pay more, but should expect longer shelf life. That's not always the case either."
"Can't believe I had to scroll down this much to find the real answer. The other answer: Savings on things like employment benefits and facilities. These businesses are scrimping and saving, in a lot of cases they're paying workers under the table and even below minimum wage. They aren't spending on things like fleets of modern fuel-efficient vehicles, and they don't have their own standards or inspectors enforcing those standards. There are no scholarship programs or time-off benefits. It is what it is. These places are amazing pillars of the city and I'm glad they exist. The people work crazy hard and they feed the community. They're heroes. People who say things like "no advertising" or claim the food is exactly the same are deceiving themselves about where the cost savings are coming from, though."
"The people wo run my local Chinese grocery store are a family and they likely work over 12 hours a day everyday. It is always the same people from open to close. There is no way they are following labor code or care about it as long as they are making money."
"People don't realize how many labour code violations go on in the immigrant community specifically because people are willing to work so hard and for so little. It's so much more than you think because so many immigrants are here without status and need to survive. We like to pretend our systems and social safety nets are bulletproof but... not even close."
"the chains have shareholders and executive bonuses to fund, so that price is also built in. That said, the big chains also offer various guarantees. I know my parents order groceries from one of the duopolies and anytime they aren’t satisfied with a piece of fruit or get a bad batch of vegetables, they get on the phone and get a refund. There’s no store in Chinatown that’s refunding you for bad produce, or letting you return even shelf stable products. Again, there’s a reason why Chinatown shops are cheaper, and they are a staple in the community. I know I could not have afforded fresh produce in university had it not been for those shops. I live too far to go to them now, but I still would if I could stop there every other day to grab essentials for the next 1-2 days. I’d never but a weeks worth of produce there, though, like I do at Farm Boy."
"I bought a big bag of premium rice last week and got it home and realized it expired almost 3 years ago and smelled off. The store has a big no refunds sign and I just have to remember to check the dates on everything. Paying the premium does have benefits."
Actual explanations for cheaper prices at ethnic grocery stores (rather than "greed"). One poster discounts marketing but really shouldn't. Elsewhere people talk about profit shifting but they never explain where in the books this profit is hidden when it rolls up to the same parent company
Toronto city-run grocery stores plan questioned as city moves ahead (aka "Toronto may have bitten off more than it can chew with city-run grocery plan: experts") - "Toronto city-run grocery stores plan questioned as city moves ahead - "Toronto city council voted to move forward with a concept rarely seen in Canada, and meant to tackle skyrocketing food prices: not-for-profit, city-run grocery stores. But critics believe Toronto is biting off more than it can chew by stepping into the business, against grocery store giants, with little experience and minimal supply-chain connections, in an industry that has razor-thin profit margins. “Every dollar you put through into the till, there’s about four cents that’s coming back as profit for each one of the major retailers that’s out there,” said Neil Hetherington, CEO of Toronto’s largest food bank, the Daily Bread Food Bank, in an interview with CTV News Sunday. “That is a very slim margin, you are dependent on scale.” He said the question now is whether the city can compete with established grocers. “Can they match the purchasing power and efficiency of the for-profit sector and then deliver it without that profit motive to deliver food at a lower cost?” he added. “It it works out that they can deliver at lower cost, then yeah you would go for it, but obviously there’s some skepticism about that.” Some of that skepticism also comes from Sylvain Charlebois, a researcher of food distribution and policy at Dalhousie University in Halifax, N.S. “When you walk into a grocery store, typically when you grab a product -- 70 per cent of that price represents the cost to produce the good in the first place. On top of that, you will have to pay for labour which is 15 per cent and then overhead costs which is five to ten per cent,” said Charlebois. “So the margins are really low and the government will have to consider that.” Charlebois added that major grocers also have fostered relationships to create reliable supply chains that allow them to get some products in bulk at discounted rates — which Toronto won’t have the benefit of when it starts out with its own municipally operated grocery chain. “The key to a successful grocery chain is to start slow, whether it’s a for profit organization or a not for profit organization,” said Charlebois. “You start slow with one store and you build your supply chain and your relationships up the food chain, accordingly to offer the best deals possible for your customers.” The idea is not new but has been gaining momentum since New York’s newly elected mayor, Zohran Mamdani, made a push for city-run grocery stores in his city — and the new leader of the federal New Democrats, Avi Lewis, has a platform that also includes a promise of a “public option for groceries.” Toronto’s pilot project includes opening four not-for-profit, city-run grocery stores in downtown Toronto, North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke — where they would serve so-called “food deserts,” low-income neighbourhoods where grocery stores are also sparse... “Grocery is a tough business, and it requires specialized expertise in logistics, supply chains, and retail operations that cities don’t have,” added Vancouver city councillor Sarah Kirby-Yung. “Our role at the municipal level is best focused on creating the conditions for businesses to succeed and for residents to have access to affordable options.” The Toronto city councillor who put the motion forward, Anthony Perruzza, says the city would waive property taxes and development charges for the stores — and pass the savings on to customers... there is currently no money in the city’s current budget allocated to the city-run grocery stores."
Left wingers claimed that without shareholders to pay, they would be able to offer lower prices, or compared them to CANEX. But they have no idea what EBITDA is or what it typically is for grocers
Of course, with taxpayers subsidising it, left wingers will just demand that taxes be raised (on their landlords) and depend on rent control to protect them from the consequences of the left wing agenda, and also demand provincial subsidies since Toronto is supposedly being stiffed by the province (since empathy is only for foreigners and "minorities", not other Ontarians
Left wingers call not taxing oil and gas to death a "subsidy" but of course waiving property taxes and development charges for government-run stores isn't a subsidy
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "Another example of Canadians thinking more government will solve their problems."
"I don't know about you, but I trust governments more than big business to fix any part of our country"
"I trust the government an big business to look out for themselves. Difference is big business needs me to agree to buy their product while the government can force me."
"Because government has been doing such a fabulous job so far... Wait times for daycare are ridiculously long. ERs have 12-16+ hour waits and people with serious health issues are increasingly falling through the cracks. Millions are without a family doctor from coast to coast. Criminals face little consequence and walk around free with a catch and release system while innocent victims suffer. No thanks. Until government proves it can handle these things, no way it should be tackling anything more."
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "It would be much simpler, less costly and more efficient to increase competition by putting a limit on the maximum number of retail stores any chain can own. Also, there should also be a requirement that all wholesalers be forced to sell to independent grocers at the same prices they give to their own stores."
"Do you want food deserts?"
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "This comment from the article "Von Massow, a professor with the University of Guelph's Ontario Agricultural College, says governments lack the expertise needed to succeed in an industry with razor-thin profit margins" is absurd on the face of it. Why absurd? Because any expertise a government might need to run any program can be hired and that is always what happens. Expertise to run grocery store chains is available 'off the shelf', as any executive recruiter could prove."
"So we stand up a program with expensive bureaucrats and then hire some even more expensive consultants. Got it."
"Yeah, just like how well the government runs the postal service."
" An issue with Canada Post is that it is required, by law, to provide services to places that are not economically viable. Yes, Canada Post is run very well. It delivers parcels and mail where the private sector will not go. Notice your comment is nothing but a slur that contains no substance."
"So the government run grocery store won’t service places that are not economically viable?"
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "Let's set up a government committee to investigate! They will create a tiger team consisting of 3 managers, 5 executives, one employee and 92 consultants. They will write a report that uses 46,000 words to say "maybe"."
"Someone still pays for the building provided for free. Using city land isn't free. The land has value and could be used for something else. Also there are construction and maintenance costs. What you're asking for is subsidized grocery stores, which will create another permanent drain on the resources of the city. The reality is that without subsidy the public grocery store will not be cheaper but rather it will be more expensive than a private store because the public store will have unionized employees and less performant management, which has to be included in the price of food."
"Wait until the store needs to source new freezers and it takes them 5 years to go through a government RFP process while the ice cream melts on the shelves lol."
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "We aren't doing a military grocery store, we're doing a public grocery store: the taxpayers in this scenario wind up with $3.2B more in their pockets for only $1.4B in government spending, which is a better multiplier than cutting taxes. They don't actually have more income, that will just be found money, which they can spend on literally anything else, further increasing their economic footprint. The government can try to capture some of that where ever it winds up. Wait, are you under the impression that money is real? It's not. It's debt vouchers. The government ideally issues and collects the same amount of vouchers every year, to minimize inflation, primarily through taxes. We can even make a billion dollars here or there, as long as we can figure out where we can get it back later on. Sales taxes does a decent job. Or we can tax the wealthy, who probably won't take advantage of this store and won't notice the extra couple bucks we need."
"A public grocery store is the same as a military one. They are both tax funded. How on earth do you figure that government can do grocery stores more efficiently than the private sector. Do you know how long it would take to set up stores and supply chains? And they wouldn’t have the volume. Or the higher margin stuff that actually helps the profits. Where are you getting $3.2B. That is patently false. Honestly. It’s crazy talking to you people who don’t underhand the difference between a private sector job and public sector one. The rest of your nonsense. I can’t even …"
Left wingers really think there's a magical money tree
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "I think the point about too much focus on retail might, unfortunately, have some truth to it. Companies like Loblaws love to mention how thin their profit margins are, while downplaying the fact that they also own most of the supply chain (not to mention the real estate holding companies that lease their stores). So they don't necessarily care that they're only making 3-4% from their retail operations, because they're also profiting everywhere else."
"I hear this argument all the time, but it relies on a fundamental misunderstanding of how accounting for public corporations in Canada works. That 3-4% includes everything they own. You can’t just go to your shareholders and pretend that some of the money you make doesn’t count, because that’s their money. When you see that documentation saying their profit margin is 3-4%, that’s the documentation they have prepared for the people that money belongs to. Think about it - if their profits aren’t going to their shareholders, who are they going to?"
"Exactly! But nobody on here will listen to you. They’re adamant Loblaws has some secret unreported earnings. They are public company required to report their enterprise earnings."
"Yep. They can't prove there's some kind of big grocery fraud but they're pretty sure it's happening based on feelings."
"So the bread price fixing scandal didn’t happen? It did. They are continuing to overcharge for underweight meat, recent story. And if you believe they are only making 3% profit on bread, you’re the one being fooled."
"Ok, but the person claiming massive corporate financial fraud has some obligation to back it up with facts."
"I think any large scale fraud instigated by loblaws of course would be off the official books. And very tough for any Reddit based investigator to find. That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening though. In my experience, clear evidence of customer fraud (bread price fixing, underweight meat, items incorrectly identifying Canada as country of origin) is also evidence of the way they run their business altogether. You’re not going to see that type of fraud on carefully created and publicly released data."
"Your allegations are that "someone" is stealing a bunch of money from grocery store shareholders. You would think they would be interested in finding out where the money is going, if that's indeed happening. You should attend the next shareholder meeting and present your theories!"
"That is not my allegation although share price manipulation is most likely part of it. My allegation is that if you are caught being provably dishonest (bread) then being caught doesn’t make you stop, in most cases, it simply changes the type of fraud you are doing. Then you get tagged with underweight meat. Then mislabeled products. Clear examples of proven fraud. It’s a pattern. To believe that this is the only manipulation that has been occurring is truly naive."
"Cool. But the discussion at hand is whether or not the grocery stores are committing financial fraud by under-reporting their profits somehow for public relations purposes as claimed often by angry Redditers."
"If they are financially motivated to do it, then yes, they may be under reporting profit margins. Public relations may be only one of the reasons they chose to report only a 3% profit."
"Probably shareholders should figure out where their stolen money is going if that's the case."
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "It's just funny that the only even whiff of any allegation regarding the massive corporate financial fraud you're alluding to only happens in Reddit conspiracy theories. It's literally insane and not all what's happening in real life and it's not at all how corporate finance works."
"In my experience people who are caught with dishonest practices continue those practices, they just change them. What they have been caught doing is just the tip of the iceberg, it flags a company who is willing to cheat. It’s funny how you defend corporate fraud by basically saying they’re too big to cheat, large scale corporate fraud occurs every day, and it’s not conveniently listed in their financials."
"I'm not "defending corporate fraud". I'm saying it's not happening. You're saying it is, without any evidence to back that up."
"Price fixing happened, proven. Fined for deceptive labeling. It’s evidence of a pattern of deceptive practices."
"So?"
"That is my evidence."
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "Another misleading element is the use of the term "profit margins". If I sell a product for $10 that costs me $9 per unit to make, my profit margin is 10%. If it costs $90 per unit to make and I sell it for $100, my profit margin is still 10% even though the actual dollar amount I've made from a unit sale has increased tenfold. This is how grocery giants can report record profits and then turn around and say "no no, our profit margins haven't changed"."
"How is that misleading? That's how profit margins work."
"So you admit the problem is that their costs have gone up."
"It’s not misleading, it’s true. You have to maintain margin rate in a retail business as costs increase. Product costs are only one type of cost increase. Labour, leases, freight, insurance, benefit programs, utilities….all operating costs tend to increase annually as well. You need to maintain your margin to have enough money to pay for all those increases and stay in the black. So if we’re talking a gross margin rate if 10% on a grocery item, when the supplier increases their product cost, the retail has to go up to the maintain the margin rate because all costs are increasing."
"If you sell a product for $10 that costs you $9 to make, you’re going out of business real fast."
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "Apart from this argument being wrong and just parroting it without checking the facts, do the grocery chains own the farms?"
Public grocery stores are having a moment. Can they really make food more affordable? : r/canada - "The Petro-Canada experiment of the 70s and 80s proves that state run companies become huge money pits. We’d likely end up with a bloated crown corp or agency with 1% margins unable to cover costs and sucking in massive amounts of government funding every year. We don’t need government run grocery stores, the competition bureau just needs to do what it’s supposed to do."
"And also Petro-Canada reduced competition by buying BP, Gulf, PetroFina, and Phillips Pertroleum."
"Exactly. Before Privatization/Restructuring (Approx. 1990–1991): The company had a staff of nearly 11,000 employees. After Privatization/Restructuring (Following 1991): The staff was reduced to approximately 5,000 employees. Restructuring: The newly private company, faced losses of $603 million in its first year post-privatization. Taxpayers were subsidizing it by $600m a year with 6000 unnecessary employees."
"So Petro Canada was losing money and people are angry for some reason that we got rid of it?"
"Those people think government should be involved in everything. Because they don’t understand the cost of that."
Left wingers are upset Petro Canada got sold out, because they want more state involvement in the economy, more featherbedding and more subsidies
The Headline Lab | Facebook - "Doug Ford’s government recently took $4 billion that was meant to serve as backup for tariff relief and shifted it into a new private-sector investment fund. If your first question is, “Why are we doing hedge-fund style investing while hospitals are overcrowded and schools are strained?” Congratulations, you are still paying attention. The government claims this new Special Opportunities Program will help Ontario respond to economic shocks, safeguard jobs, and make strategic investments. That’s the sales pitch. However, CityNews reported the fund will be managed by a private firm, which is exactly the kind of phrase that should make taxpayers sit up straighter. Because once public money starts vanishing into channels that ordinary people cannot easily track, “trust us” increasingly fills the gap. (CityNews Toronto) And this is the part that matters politically: priorities reveal policy with the mask off. Ontario’s own budget states hospitals are receiving additional funding, yes, but critics argue that the province is favouring speculative, future-oriented investment tools. At the same time, actual public systems need direct help right now. That is not a minor disagreement. That is the entire debate. Do you allocate scarce public funds into classrooms, ERs, and frontline stability, or into a government-designed investment vehicle with private management and broad future-economy language wrapped around it? (Ontario Budget) The Ford move is not inherently corrupt because it involves private management. But it is definitely the kind of action that deserves scrutiny, because governments often hide behind complexity. And when Queen’s Park says, “Don’t worry, we’ve got a special fund for opportunities,” the usual civic reply isn’t applause. It’s: show us the terms, show us the manager, show us the guardrails, and explain why this money was better placed there than in the public services people rely on today. Because four billion dollars is not a rounding error. It is a statement of values."
Left wingers hate investment and want unlimited social spending because they have no ability to delay gratification
More businesses have been closing than opening in Canada. It’s time to admit it: We’re in an entrepreneurial drought - "More businesses in Canada have closed than opened for six consecutive quarters, and more than half (55%) of small business owners say they would not recommend starting a business right now, according to new research by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB). CFIB’s new report, Canada’s Entrepreneurial Drought, Part 1: The Shrinking Business Landscape, is the first in a two-part series examining the growing imbalance between business creation and closures across the country. The entrepreneurial drought, a sustained period of four or more quarters where business exits outpace new business entries, has been ongoing since early 2024. While the overall trend of business creation in Canada has been declining since mid-1980s, openings had mostly outpaced business closures. That’s not the case anymore. In the second quarter of 2025, exit rates reached 5.6%, while entry rates fell to 4.8% in Q4 2025, marking some of the highest closure rates and weakest startup activity outside the pandemic... Two‑thirds of small firms said they feel unsupported by their provincial governments, only 3% strongly believed their government had a clear vision for entrepreneurship, while 73% are not confident in the federal government. High costs, tax and payroll pressures, complex rules, red tape, and ongoing labour challenges against a backdrop of persistent global uncertainty, all make entrepreneurship more difficult and less attractive. “Canada’s economic foundation is crumbling. Governments need to stop just papering over the cracks and really refocus efforts on policies that improve the small business environment,” said Brianna Solberg, CFIB’s director for the Prairies and the North. “We cannot afford to regulate ambition out of our economy. When more than half of current small business owners are telling you they wouldn’t recommend starting a business, it’s time to listen.”"
Left wing logic: unions say CFIB is bad, so we can't trust anything they say
Why is the gap between Australia and Canada’s minimum wage so massive? 🇦🇺 vs 🇨🇦 : r/CanadaJobs - "lol you see the prices in aus?"
"I was shocked at alcohol prices in aus"
"I was shocked at soda prices, even in supermarkets. Or $9+ for a box of cereals."
"Many restaurants in Australia will even charge a public holiday surcharge so they can afford to pay people on holidays since it's so high."
