Rex Churchill on X - "Repeat after me: "The Odyssey is fiction, not history.""
The Medieval Scholar on X - "Lord of the rings is fiction and look at the exceptional armor WETA Workshop made. The odyssey takes place within an age of human history that is very much real. Trying to refute the criticism of bad looking costumes by just saying it’s fictional falls flat"
Mark Howard on X - "The costumes in Nolan's film aren't just aesthetically displeasing, but they also look cheap and anachronistic even within the film's setting."
Aɴᴛ on X - "Christopher Nolan has built such a strong reputation that, if he wanted to, he could have given Greece and its people not only an epic masterpiece, but also one that showcased Greek acting talent by hiring several actors who aren't internationally known, adding a huge degree of authenticity while celebrating Greek culture. He wouldn't have had to bow to studio pressure to make it "woke." He's one of the few directors in Hollywood who could pretty much do whatever he wanted, and the movie still would have received all the funding it needed. Instead, he chose the coward's route by capitulating to the Hollywood hive mind. It also comes across as a calculated move to maximise the film's chances of picking up multiple Oscar nominations. Yes, The Odyssey is a work of fiction, but it's built on the foundations of Greek history, mythology and culture. It's something Greeks hold close to their hearts, something they're immensely proud of and fiercely protective of. Instead, Nolan chose casting decisions that many Greeks see as insulting, forcing a modern ideological narrative onto one of the most important stories in Greek culture."
Jon Root on X - "John Leguizamo complains about the lack of Latino representation in Hollywood, while on the red carpet for Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey where he stole the role from a Greek/European actor… What a hypocrite."
Josh Innes on X - "He stole that one role from mustachioed Italian plumbers…"
Meme - "VISION. LEADERSHIP. LEGACY. HISTORY tS WRITTEN BY THOSE WHO DARE TO DREAM
ELLIOT PAGE as MICHELLE OBAMA
ZENDAYA as BARACK OBAMA
WHOOPI GOLDBERG as JOE BIDEN
A CHRISTOPHER NOLAN FILM
OBAMA. THE MAN. THE PRESIDENT. THE LEGEND"
Nolan’s Odyssey cast angers Greek film fans - "Over the course of The Odyssey’s production, Greek and Greek Cypriot media platforms wrote open letters to Sir Christopher’s team and Hollywood, stating that Greek people “did not vanish” and were “still here” as “a living people whose story has never stopped being written”. “We are not asking for exclusion or limitation,” wrote one such letter in Greek City Times. “We are not arguing against diversity, nor against reinterpretation. Greek culture itself has always been shaped by exchange, migration, and encounter across centuries. “What we are asking is something simpler and more human. That, when Greek stories are retold on a global stage, Greek people are not rendered invisible within them.” There is one Greek actor, Yannis Kokiasmenos, listed among the cast. He plays a coastal villager. Yannis Smaragdis, a filmmaker, said it would be “despicable” if Sir Christopher made the decision to cast Nyong’o to meet Academy Award diversity requirements... Lina Mendoni, the Greek culture minister, was forced to address calls for state intervention during production after it was revealed that the ministry of culture had granted The Odyssey a reported €6.5m (£5.6m) in subsidies. She maintained that the Greek government’s approach since 2019 had been to treat culture as a strategic national investment and that “art cannot be censored”... After July 6, The Odyssey will be screened for critics only, in a move by Universal and Sir Christopher that bucks the trend of studios inviting fan-site bloggers and influencers to post enthusiastic reviews on social media in advance of a film’s general release in an attempt to pre-empt bad reviews."
Representation is not for white people
Apparently if you subsidise something and have conditions for your money, that's "censorship"
Meme - "Progressive Director *Christopher Nolan*
- Makes a film set in Ancient Greece
- Doesnt cast a single Greek
- The cast is as diverse as downtown L.A.
Racist Director *Mel Gibosn*
- Makes a film set in pre-colonial Mexico
- Only hires indigenous actors
- has them all speak Mayan"
Eren Bali on X - "Lupita Nyong’o role as Helen of Troy in Odyssey has already started a war, so in a way she has been a very historically accurate pick."
Fandom Pulse on X - "Christopher Nolan says his version of The Odyssey is for modern audiences: “When you look at the ancient world… there’s a lot of cultural prejudice….I want to make it feel very fresh for modern audiences.” Is this the final blow for the movie?"
Brandon Morse on X - "Let me translate this for you. When they say "modern audience" they don't actually mean they're making this for those with modern sentiments. There aren't that many people with those sentiments to keep a movie studio afloat. Box office numbers have crashed and burned for films. The point isn't to make films for you, or those small groups of people who like the message (and often still don't see it anyway), the "modern audience" is the youth. Teenagers and children. The point is to redefine and restructure a story so that it loses it's intent and the value it serves to larger concepts like reinforcing Western civilization's values. The chief virtues it wants to push to replacement are things you often see repeated ad nauseum. "Inclusion" and "found family" are often held over actual family. You see a lot of moral ambiguity and nihilism as wisdom ("He sees the good in people, I see the truth" - James Gunn's Supergirl) and incredible amount of identity-based hierarchies. So these "remakes" that continue to fail aren't cash grabs. The dice roll on them comes up snake eyes way too often, but the point isn't to make money, it's to take a story or characters that helped define the attitudes, morality, and virtues of the Western world and corrupt them so that they become the "updated" version for young sponges to consume and be influenced by."
Roman Helmet Guy on X - "It might seem hypocritical that Variety praises Moana for respecting Polynesian culture while attacking you for wanting Nolan’s Odyssey to respect Greek culture. But there’s actually a consistent moral through-line: They just hate White people."
Meme - "LOOK AT ME. I AM THE HELEN OF TROY NOW" *Lupita Nyong'o to Diane Kruger in Somali ship hijacking meme*
Fandom Pulse | Facebook - "Lupita Nyong'o, in a separate interview with DC Film Girl ahead of The Odyssey's July 17 release, on why she believes Homer's original epic needed correcting: "When you read The Iliad and The Odyssey, very little time is spent on the female perspective. The story is told from a very masculine point of view. But this film takes the time to really look at things from the women's point of view." Penelope holds Ithaca together for twenty years. Athena drives the entire plot. Circe turns men into pigs. Is Nyong'o describing Homer's Odyssey or a different book entirely?"
Austin Petersen | Facebook - "There's only one Greek cast member in the Odyssey. When Black Panther was made, Lupita Nyong'o praised it for drawing carefully from real African cultures and avoiding cultural misrepresentation. Then they asked her to defend playing Helen of Troy and her answer was that it was a mythological story. So was Wakanda. When it came time to build that fictional space of Wakanda, fidelity was sacred. But when the myth was Greek suddenly we should all relax. There are two rulebooks the left plays by. One for their protected cultures which are holy, and one for European civilization which should be considered open source."
Comment: "Unlike Wakanda, Troy was real."
Of course, left wingers are continuing to claim the Odyssey is fiction, so anything goes.
Nicholas Piff Peterson | Facebook - "It’s genuinely terrifying that Christopher Nolan’s Odyssey trailer has more dislikes than the Snow White trailer did, and a lot of people did not like the Snow White movie with Rachel Zegler. It’s concerning that so many Christopher Nolan fans seem to be turning on him just based on a few characters being cast that are literally great actors in what is a massive ensemble. Nolan has put together a stacked cast of talented performers, and the backlash feels way overblown for a mythic story like The Odyssey. Fans are acting like one or two casting choices are going to ruin everything, ignoring that he has a proven track record of elevating actors and delivering incredible movies regardless of initial skepticism. I honestly believe that when the movie comes out, if the reviews are great similar to Oppenheimer — which was widely praised and a huge success — people are gonna go out regardless of what they think of his casting decisions. The story, visuals, and Nolan’s signature style are what ultimately drive audiences to theaters. All of the nonsense over the casting is actually so ridiculous to me. Nolan isn’t trying to troll anyone; he’s making an ambitious epic with the actors he believes will serve the vision best. Let’s wait for the actual film instead of judging a masterpiece in the making based on trailer reactions. Here’s hoping the positive word of mouth wins out like it has for so many of his previous projects. Nolan deserves better than this premature pile-on."
This guy is "terrified" by everything
Nolan's Odyssey Review: Beautiful but Dreary - "What is missing from Nolan’s film is the “rare excitement” that “stirs your spirit and your body.” The Odyssey is, to put it bluntly, a three-hour downer. In Nolan’s screenplay, Odysseus (Matt Damon), is not “the man of many tropes”, as Homer described him (andra...polytropon)—the wily king of Ithaca who leads his men in and out of trouble as they sail around the Mediterranean for years after Troy’s fall. Rather, he is a man of only one trope: guilt... After that confession, Odysseus’ rout of the suitors, drawn out and overproduced, feels like an anticlimax. We next see him abdicating his throne as a self-imposed punishment, leaving son Telemachus (Tom Holland) to rule over Ithaca while he sails off into mysterious exile with a veiled Penelope at his side. I had to ask: “What did she do to deserve this fate?” In Homer’s epic, by contrast, the ever-helpful Athena, goddess of wisdom, prolongs the night and signals rosy-fingered Dawn to take her time arriving so that Penelope and Odysseus can enjoy hours of love-making and he can regale her with the tales of his adventures. Watching the couple’s decidedly un-erotic exit in Nolan’s movie, I wondered if Odysseus would ever forgive himself long enough to realise that Penelope might be in the same room (or boat). This is not to say that The Odyssey doesn’t have admirable aspects, mostly in regard to its special effects... Nolan used next to no CGI... The effect is of a satisfyingly tangible reality that computer generation simply cannot produce. Still, the sets are mostly dreary. The fall of Troy, if it occurred historically, took place around 1190 B.C., at the height of Greece’s Late Bronze Age civilisation. But the structures in Nolan’s movie, modelled after the Palace of Mycenae on the Peloponnesus and similar ruins, look already faded and decrepit. Nolan is notorious for his greyed-out cinematic palettes, and here the brilliantly sunny Mediterranean beach-scapes that enthral visitors to modern Greece and its islands look more like the fog-beset English Channel in his Dunkirk (2017). Odysseus and his men dress almost entirely in Batman black in this film, with dingy leather armour that has been criticised for bearing little resemblance to the colourful and brightly polished battle-wear of archaic Greeks. It’s supposed to be the Bronze Age, we’re told again and again, but where’s the bronze?... Lupita Nyong’o works out fine as Helen. Her beauty does not rise to the level of immortal perfection imagined by Homer. (What woman’s does?) But she is a skilled enough actress to convey Helen’s arresting glamour in her very brief scene. (She is less successful playing Helen’s half-sister, Clytemnestra, who, as she is murdering her husband, Agamemnon, glares in the banal fashion of a mother hectoring her children about housework.) The real diversity flop in Nolan’s movie is Elliot Page as Sinon, a character from Virgil’s Aeneid who has somehow wandered into Homer’s world. The 5’1” Sinon is supposed to be a warrior, yet cannot hit voice notes lower than what Tom Wolfe called the 'King Sano croak' of chain-smoking Upper East Side society ladies... The main problem is lacklustre acting in general"
Homeric Society - "The values of this society are quite different from those which many modern readers bring to the poem, as is evidenced by the tendency of today's students to dismiss Homer's heroes, especially Achilles, as childish, selfish, arrogant, testosterone-driven brats... The Iliad, like Beowulf and the other poems cited above, celebrates the achievements of the aristocratic warrior class who earn their privileged position in this society through their prowess in battle. The focus is on the adult male hero, whose martial exploits are celebrated as the acme of human achievement... The heroes of these poems display an overriding concern for personal glory and its external trappings, with relatively little concern for the common good or other moral issues... In describing societies such as that portrayed in the Iliad, anthropologists employ the term *Shame Culture (in contrast to the *Guilt Culture found in most of today's western societies). Individuals in a guilt culture tend to hold themselves up to a set of personal moral standards.... In a shame culture, by contrast, the focus is not on a set of personal standards but on one's public standing. The overriding concern is to save face... As in war, success is everything in such a society: good intentions, high moral standards, fairness, a peaceful conscience — none of these count in the face of public disgrace. The competition for public honors is often intense and takes the form of what is known as a zero-sum game: that is, honor is won only at someone else's expense. Thus the notion that winning or losing might be less important than how one plays the game is utterly foreign to such a culture. Winning is everything: results are much more important than means. The crucial thing is to prove one's superiority and to have that superiority publicly acknowledged by one's peers. This intense competition inevitably leads to factionalism. The Greeks divide the world very clearly into "friends" and "enemies," with the understanding that one should do everything in one's power to aid one's friends and to harm one's enemies; failure to do so results in disgrace. Thus the Greek equivalent of the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.") is, "Help your friends, harm your enemies." The contrast between these two aphorisms nicely captures the gulf that separates a guilt culture, with its cooperative values, from the competitive values of a shame culture. In Greek, the innate quality that renders one superior to others is called *aretê; (often translated "excellence" or, less happily, "virtue." The masculine, aggressive connotations of the word can be seen in its etymological connection to the name Ares; compare the English "virtue," which derives from the Latin vir ["man"] and originally meant "courage" or "manliness.") For the Homeric hero, war provides the occasion for the display of aretê; and the winning of glory (or *kleos). In a shame culture, however, mere success is not sufficient (it is not enough, for example, to know in your own mind that you are the best); public acknowledgment of one's superiority is essential. The Greek term for such acknowledgment is *timê. Timê refers to the public, concrete acknowledgment of aretê by means of prizes. In a pre-monetary society like that of the Iliad, such prizes are not financial in nature but symbolic: they represent, not income, but honor. As such, they have a strong emotional significance that is difficult for the modern reader to appreciate. (Students often think of the contract disputes of professional athletes.) You must remember: the hero's position in society is based upon his aretê; the surest sign of that aretê is the timê offered to the hero. Modern readers would prefer a hero who was "above" such concerns, but it is clear that the Greeks did not. Even as late as the 4th century (when cooperative values have sprung to greater prominence in Greek society) the philosopher Aristotle is able to describe the megalopsychos or "great-spirited man" as one who is innately superior to others and demands to be treated accordingly. For Aristotle, humility on the part of such an individual is a character flaw, a sign of some defect in his (note the masculine pronoun) personality."
Someone suggested that Achilles and Odysseus were anti-heroes. But that's because modern ideas of heroism have changed and Christian morality is not the same as Classical. Ergo why Nolan's portrayal of Odysseus as wracked with guilt is anachronistic. An imperfect hero is not a anti-hero
On the Iliad and Excellence - "Much of the Iliad celebrates the competitive, toxic pursuit of excellence and perfection. Heroes strive for glory over survival, with the risk of being a detriment to their family legacy... Achilles is later pushed into battle by the death of Patroclus, and ultimately fulfills his destiny and kills Hector, solidifying his legacy. To the ancient Greeks, these events proved that no one was able to escape destiny, and portrayed the glory of their predecessors... It wasn’t until I analyzed the Iliad in an academic setting that I began to realize that the ancient Greek ideal of a hero should not be idolized. It was in the analysis of the aristeiai that I learned of the flaws of both Achilles and the Homeric concept of heroism. The aristeia was the climax of the ancient hero’s greatness, when he demonstrated his power in battle and destroyed his enemy, and was often what solidified his legacy. Achilles’ aristeia, for example, was him killing Hector. However, these feats of greatness were often war crimes in disguise. Achilles’ aristeia continued after the death of Hector, when he proceeded to mutilate the body of the hero, dragging him behind his chariot around the walls of Troy. These demonstrations of so-called greatness show an alternative side to perfection, demonstrating the toxic nature of the expectation of excellence."
Odysseus vs. Achilles: The Two Faces of Ancient Greek Heroism - "Achilles is the kind of hero who charges into battle, sword in hand, ready to face any foe. His entire existence revolves around kleos, the Greek concept of glory that ensures his name will live on forever. He is nearly invincible, and his physical prowess is unmatched. In Homer’s Iliad, Achilles is described as “the greatest warrior of the Greeks,” a title he earns through sheer force and bravery. His mother, Thetis, tells him that he faces two fates: a short, glorious life or a long, obscure one... In ancient Greece, Achilles was the hero everyone admired. His physical prowess and relentless pursuit of glory made him the ideal warrior. Cities like Sparta revered Achilles for his martial excellence, which aligned with their values of military might. The Iliad was a staple in Greek education, and Achilles’ heroism was something every young Greek boy was taught to emulate. His valor and tragic death became the gold standard for heroism in a society that prized martial prowess... Odysseus, while respected, was viewed differently. In Athens, a city that valued intelligence and strategy, Odysseus was admired for his cunning and adaptability. The Odyssey was cherished not just for its adventure but for its portrayal of human resilience. However, Odysseus’s reliance on deception made his heroism more complex and, at times, controversial. Some city-states preferred Achilles’ straightforward heroism, while others appreciated Odysseus’s more nuanced, cerebral qualities."
Odysseus and the Genus ‘Hero’ - "The presence of 'unheroic' features in the character of Homeric Odysseus was noticed long ago, and since the time of the ancient commentators it has become habitual to gloss those features by predicating them on Odysseus' metis, 'cunning', as opposed to the bie, 'might', of other Homeric heroes, first and foremost Achilles... The last labour of Odysseus is remarkable in that it is regarded as a crowning achievement in his life, an achievement which, in accordance with the view of labours outlined above, will guarantee him the approporiate reward. Indeed, according to the prophecy of Teiresias, only upon accomplishing this mission will Odysseus be able to return home, where he will live happily and die of old age: 'And from the sea shall thine own death come, the gentlest death that may be, which shall end thee foredone with smooth old age, and the folk shall dwell happily around thee.' This promise seems to be a clear indication of the fact that the Odyssey is not only aware of the popular notion of heroism as outlined above but also deliberately models its hero to fit into this notion... In full conformity with popular Greek ethics, Odysseus is represented as contented with his lot and preferring to immortality his own life even if it is a life of toil and suffering. In this, he proves as exemplary a hero as only a Greek hero can be... To sum up, either Homeric poem offers its own version of heroism. In the Iliad being a hero amounts to readiness to meet death on the battlefield: the sense in which the words 'heroism' and 'hero' are used today ultimately descends from this concept. According to the Odyssey a hero is one who is prepared to go through life enduring toil and suffering. Whatever the reasons for this difference, there can be no doubt that it is the Odyssey's version of heroism that conforms to the popular Greek attitude to the phenomenon of hero-worship."
