Workers Party

Me: Lol Daniel Goh got expelled from wp

A: yep
WP is going into the shitter for a party that is selling themselves as the good guys

Me: I guess they'll just content themselves with the hardcore anti pap vote

B: i think they're moving further and further left

A: i thought they stopped after RK blew up
when RK was there they were running a steady drumbeat of race/religion issues
using her to spearhead fault lines in these issues
after she left they went quiet on woke
i think Pritam's strategy then was to capture minority vote and swing marginal seats, never mind the damage WP race baiting does to our social fabric
RK was to spearhead this
Daniel wasn't the only one to be expelled, earlier on both of RK's aides who testified at the COP also resigned soon after it ended

people are not stupid, they can read between the lines
those who cause problems for Pritam will go
they didn't lie for the party and cover up for Pritam, so out they had to go

Me: I was arguing with someone once who pretended not to understand that often when people resign they're really fired

A: Pritam did a lot of unwoke things to save his skin after he decided to let her burn
so hard to run on woke ticket

Me: Like putting down "minorities"?

A: like revealing details alleging she had mental illness... etc

actually it's weird, after RK saga some of my zoomer acquaintances became less woke
there will always be the crazies of course, but some of them seem to be asking if this wokeshit is what we really want for sg

B: it was a serious blow to the political woke movement in SG
It took the wind out of their sails

A: the saga has made me suspicious of WP and their grassroots activists
because I know they are not batting for Singapore but the party
if they are ever put in the position where they have to choose between public interest or party interest
they will sell us out so Pritam can retain a position he clearly doesn't deserve.

the right thing to do was for Pritam to resign along with RK, and hand leadership over to the next in command
one can argue if the other 2 needs to be punished for deceiving everyone but Pritam clearly had the full hand in this

they did the two cadre members dirty, and Daniel as well
Daniel did a lot of shit for the party in forming the policy framework that gave them more credibility in the eyes of the public
Loh Peiying served for over a decade and served under Pritam as well
this is how they are repaid

A: you get the sense PAP's interests are more aligned with Singapore's
currently anyway

can't say the same for PE2017
but in general, the broad strokes

WP... under Pritam it seems he is doing whatever is expedient for himself
pick at racial and religious fault lines to capture minority votes
lie repeatedly to the public and even his own party when he fucked up with Rak

he is helping to make a case for PAP supermajority, he has so little integrity I can't trust him not to veto stuff that will help Singaporeans if he stands to benefit from it

C: Did I ever tell u guys the story of how I used to help out at PS' meet the people session? Hahaha

It was 2011. I was an opposition supporter. Went for WP rally, felt strongly for their cause.

When the dust settled and WP won Aljunied, PS reached out to a lawyer friend of mine saying he needed lawyers at his MPS. I thought ok I'll go

So I did.

Very quickly realised it was a shitshow. PS (and I felt WP by extension) was more about optics than actual work.
They didn't bother to research and find out what G schemes are available. Or how to qualify residents under those schemes.

Their appeal letters are just:

My resident X came to see me. He has this [issue].

Please assist.

Wtf might as well don't write?

Then when the appeals invariably fail? The WP folks will say, "Yah see how the G and the civil service all bully us. Just because the letter is on WP letterhead."

It's like the North Koreans saying on the radio that, "The capitalist American devil's are bombing us again" whenever their shit infrastructure fails and they have blackouts.

But they genuinely believe it. They genuinely believe its not a lack of effort on their part.

I cleaned up their system. Tried to help them draft some template letters, with placeholders for info that needs to be obtained from residents. Not sure if they bothered to use it.

I left after about 6 months. Disillusioned

***

Daniel PS Goh:

"My retirement from politics is complete. I am still away on the work trip, and video-calling home, my older boy was excited about a registered mail and asked to open it, and then exclaimed with some amusement, Daddy you are expelled from the Workers’ Party! My first thought, good job understanding the letter! Well he did accompany me a lot on my WP work for a good part of his early childhood and was my bastion of moral support. Then, he took photos and sent them to me.

Since the Central Executive Committee requested nicely that I not disclose the correspondence due to information about the “inner workings” of the party, I won’t. Though ironically that is the very reason given for the expulsion. Such is the closed loop in the lack of accountability. With this closure, I can now focus on serving my country in my responsibilities in NUS. Gotta update my CV to say I was expelled from WP for calling out the leadership. Anyways, my dear friends, thanks for all the support and concern all these years, they were really important for me during this fruitful political journey! "

Yudhishthra Nathan:

"One evening a decade ago, in a void deck in Sengkang, as we were typing away appeal letters at Lee Li Lian’s Meet-the-People Session, Daniel PS Goh turned to me and asked me whether I’d be interested to come on board the Workers’ Party policy team to work on environmental issues. I asked him if he was sure that an 18 year-old who hadn’t set foot into university yet and hadn’t – to use a contemporary term – “adulted” yet could be of much help. He gave me a reassuring nod in a way perhaps a teacher would give a student.

Indeed, without Daniel’s almost academic approach to policy, the WP probably wouldn’t have had a robust manifesto in GE2015, relevant for modern times. Current WP MPs would do well to remember that it was this manifesto which formed the basis of the one they campaigned and got elected on in 2020.

What the public also probably doesn’t know is that Daniel Goh helped modernise much of the WP’s media outreach efforts through his leadership of the party’s media team. It was a team where it didn’t matter if you were a MP or the newest volunteer – anyone in the team could pitch ideas, could criticise the approach. With Daniel’s encouragement, we dared to try new things on social media to set us apart from the PAP. From day-to-day challenges to contentious Parliamentary debates, we were all on alert to respond. We learnt our limits as a team in GE2015, and spent years thereafter learning from our mistakes. By GE2020, although Daniel was out of the picture by then, those of us involved in the media effort knew how to get things up and running for the campaign thanks to our experience under his able leadership in the years before.

Daniel’s expulsion from the WP is but symptomatic of much bigger problems in the country’s largest Opposition party in Parliament today.

But on a more personal note, I look back fondly on our shared experiences since our days together in the Punggol East Constituency Committee all those years ago. Perhaps with sorrow, for the WP we joined - that rational, progressive force built up in many ways by Mr Low Thia Khiang - was not the WP we left."

Earlier:

Daniel Goh says Workers’ Party disciplinary committee formed to investigate his Facebook posts on Raeesah Khan

"In his Facebook post, Assoc Prof Goh also said that he had asked those questions as a “concerned citizen” and as a party member who believes that “public accountability and integrity are non-negotiable values demanded of our political leaders”.

In issues of grave public interest, he said that questions must be asked about the inner workings of any organisation.

“If asking those questions carry a price, I am willing to pay it, and count it inexpensive,” he wrote...

“I spent nearly 10 years working alongside many colleagues, building WP up as a credible political party, with the core values of integrity, service, and public accountability,” he said.

“In the same spirit of public accountability, I would ask that the party leaders make public the grounds of their decision and explain any disciplinary sanctions they would impose on me.”

He also said that he disagreed with seeing the Government or any political party as “political opponents”.

“As opposition politicians working to advance public interest in a field dominated by the ruling party, it is too easy to fall into a cycle of pride and irresponsibility driven by a persecution complex,” he wrote as he concluded his post.

“The Workers’ Party had placed men and women in Parliament because we believed in looking beyond ourselves and the party itself to build a better and more just Singapore. The party must serve Singapore responsibly.”

In April 2020, Assoc Prof Goh stepped down from the WP central executive committee (CEC), citing health reasons."

Observations - 5th March 2022

Some people got upset when I asked if a guy fucking a FTM is gay

It looks like they think that it is gay for a man to fuck both a MTF and a FTM. Presumably that would apply the other way around too - it is gay for a woman to fuck both a MTF and a FTM

So straightness is presumably defined as fucking someone of the other sex who also identifies as the other sex

But then, I'm sure if the FTM stops identifying as a guy, they will still think it's gay to fuck it

So gender norms almost surely come into it too

As a friend commented, don't fuck flat girls unless they are very pretty, or you'll feel gay

 

Since many Americans love Imperial units so much and claim units divisible by 12 or 16 are superior to those divisible by 10 (i.e. metric), they should abandon base 10 for all their numbers and move to base 12 or 16

"In the end, I think the terrorists have won.They have driven Americans so mad with fear that they have effectively destroyed themselves. The US of 2001 has long ago ceased to exist. It is not recognisable today."

Whoever came up with the date format YYYY-DD-MM needs to be spanked

I drove around Northern Upstate New York for a few hours. The roads were Malaysian quality. Actually, Penang had better roads. Their excuse will be that harsh weather destroys the roads, but Canadian roads are of much better quality, and Californian roads are bad too

China-related topics probably make many ethnic Chinese emotional in a way that other political topics don't, because it touches on their identity. A deeper complication might be why the Chinese Communist Party is identified with, rather than a more abstract notion of Chineseness and/or China. This might have something to do with the conflation between Party, State and Nation (which has parallels in Singapore) and says something about the lack of modernity in Chinese political thought (or at least not modernity in the Western sense)

If you pay politicians poorly, most politicians will be rich people

With traditional religions you know there's little or no point arguing with people, and people have been socialised to backoff when it comes to the touchy topic of religion (with politics and sex, the issue is just of them being contentious - in principle one is thought to be able to change one's mind about the former, and in the latter discomfort or offence doesn't typically result from disagreement but being obscene). But with secular religions it's harder to realise you're bumping up against faith positions and threatening people's identities, so things can get a lot more fraught
 

 

"Hitler wasn't a white supremacist. He was a Nordic supremacist who believed that white Slavic peoples were subhuman"

"Many of the most enthusiastic opponents of Jews are leftist Jews, especially those seeking attention by trashing Jews “as a Jew.” Gilad Atzmon, Norm Finkelstein, Peter Beinart, the list goes on and on...
The biggest misconception that alt-right has about Jews is that they want borders “for thee but not for me (israel)”. What they simply don’t understand is that leftist Jews also oppose Israel, and many want a one-state solution turning Israel into the 24th ar*b m*slim country in the ME."

"They say liberals love humanity but hate humans. Conservatives hate humanity but love humans." 

 

"Some of our leaders and the media (looking at you, Vox) have peddled this notion that fear of Islamic terrorism is akin to fear of shark attacks - highly irrational and just an exercise in hysterics.

President Barack Obama has said that "terrorism takes far fewer lives in America than handguns, car accidents and falls in bathtubs," which is an attempt at rationalizing and calming the fears and anxiety of the nation. This game of statistical equivalence smacks of denial and is particularly concerning to me because of the failure to distinguish intent."

"I honestly think it will take a nuclear attack before these people take the threat seriously"

"Eventually a group of true believers will get a hold of a nuclear device, and such people will finally understand the world they live in and promptly shut the fuck up."

"I really don't think they will shut up; they will just mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I wish I was completely joking."

"the Nazis did everything they could to wipe Poland from the map as a political entity.

They didn't do this in Norway or Belgium, for example, where the Nazis at least maintained the basic machinery of a coherent state.

Poland on the other hand wasn't occupied so much as erased. And it's worth noting the Jews propotionately fared far worse in Eastern Europe, where the Nazis sought to eradicate those states, than they did in Western Europe.

A Belgian or French Jew was still nominally Belgian or French. A Polish Jew was literally an unperson."

 

Me: Well I guess A imagines that blocking me after grossly mischaracterising what I said proves that he won the argument

It's telling that his "mental health" is so fragile that someone pointing out his bad logic hurts it

B: It's always a sure sign your burn was sick. lol

Me: as [C] says, nowadays blocking a person says more about the blocker than the blockee 

"Indians are very good at complaining"

"i find tt they are very quick to pull out the "oppressed minority" card. i worked as a promoter, selling beer at a booth. some indians asked for extra free gifts while buying fewer products. when i refused, wat happened? im a racist, apparently  
i worked as a credit card promoter. one indian woman asked me the requirements so i just rattled off the list of documents. she was so offended she threatened to call the police on me. why? according to her, i had displeased her by not immediately assuming tt she alr held multiple credit cards   i noticed tt no other race wld ask for special treatment, not the chinese, not the angmohs, just the indians
and when they dun get special treatment, YOU are the racist  

they like to say "why? is it because im indian?"
idk how to reply"

On the attraction of KTV

Gong Tao Help Desk - Posts | Facebook

"Funny how everyone say oh marriage broken because of this saga.

But no one talk about how many marriages KTVs have preserved."

 

Elaboration:

"biologically speaking, the human male is wired to seek out as many partners as possible to ensure the survival of their genes.

monogamy is only the norm in fairly recent times to maintain stability.

 

say for example, when the prince and princess of 2 different tribes or kingdom marries and allies with each other. it's in their best interest to maintain monogamous to make sure that the other kingdom won't buaysong and attack them.

 

Fast forward to today, monogamy is the status quo already but yet the need to spread genes still hard coded into our brain.

 

so what happens is that the husband will get bored of the same wife and go out to get some excitement. (read up the coolidge effect)

 

does he love the vietnam bu? no, he's willing to die for his family any day. but that one night of fun rewards his brain with abundance of dopamine and seratonin chemicals, that one is make u feel happy and fulfilled one la.

 

it makes him able to persevere and tahan his wife's complaint and bullshit for another year or so.

it gives him clarity and focus to continue providing for his family.

 

it allows him to be rational, rational enough to not want to divorce and end the marriage on a whim or based on emotions.

 

that's why KTV can preserve marriage"

 

 

Comment: 

"The KTV is like a paradise or respite provides him with the mental strength to continue in life or something HAHAHA"

 

 

A:  my friend said he  kenna  jio  to KTV once, the semi lupsup one and said he  can see why some guys are addicted

 

basically after a hard days work you go there and be treated like a king
girls pretend to be interested in you and all your work rants

 

B: first time i went

the lady came in ask me spread my leg. i’m like ? 

she use her legs to pull my legs apart. 

then sat between them and massage my hands. asking me how was my day.

 

And yeah. i can understand why men love ktv.

don’t think it’s healthy to visit ktv. like prostitution. it sets unhealthy expectations from women.
 

A: the harem isn't real if you are an average joe

better to VR

B:  even rich people also can’t get harem. '

divorce is pretty punitive for men.

 

A:  harem implies they aren't married

C:  Yah can be addictive. Go there get treated like emperor. Some girls are chio, but even those not chio ones... Under all the make up and push up bras etc, with bad lighting and alcohol, also look ok.

 

And for many of the guys, girls like this won't even spit on them in public

To go to ktv and be treated like an emperor, have them drape themselves over you, touch you, feed you... Sure feels shiok lah

 

A:  society likes to laugh at incels for not having sex and then attack them when they decide to make themselves happy by paying for it

Covid Vaccines and Children

A: wow cc wants the docs [who expressed concerns about covid vaccines and children] to be punished Calvin Cheng - Posts | Facebook - "PUNISH THE TWELVE QUACKS"

Doctor A: I find that Calvin Cheng is becoming increasingly unhinged recently

Calvin Cheng - Posts | Facebook - "IRRESPONSIBLE DOCTORS’ OPEN LETTER"

he also spoke of GPs in a dismissive way, then tried to backtrack. But his logic is funny. If he thinks GPs shouldn't comment on health issues, then what about Calvin Cheng himself?

I mean his whole argument is that GPs don't know enough so they shouldn't comment
but he has been commenting a lot about covid himself, so...
he should attack the argument/message, not the person

A: he is a vaxhole
u no agree with me on vaccination means u must die
eye roll

we have more data from vaccine based on traditional tech
mRNA, not much data, mostly on paper
on paper it should be safer, but you don't know if you plane really flies until you fly it

Doctor B: disagree
mRNA exists in our cells already
its super safe
the point of contention is that the mRNA VACCINE is untested, ok that i agree

A: yep but we haven't done a full long term test of mRNA vaccines on humans
so unless there is a super pressing need to do so like non-trivial CF for kids, conservative approach is more sensible when it comes to vaccinating kids

Doctor B: already completed child trial in USA for Pfizer its safe
but i can understand why people will hesitate to vaccinate

A: short term trails

the concerns are on long term effects
which, we have zilch idea of what might be
kids have many potential years of life ahead

Doctor A: Every one of the ‘experts’ who debunked the GP letter conveniently sidestepped the fact that there is no long term data
On the vaccine I mean

Doctor B: that's a problem that no one can solve

A: personally? i think mRNA vaccines are safer
but the risk-benefit does not check out, given low kid mortality from covid and known factor alternatives

Doctor B: good point

Doctor A: One of the experts said that there’s no evidence that there will be long term side effects. Errr yeah, because mRNA vaccines haven’t been out that long. That’s the whole point of contention lol
That’s a really stupid answer from a supposed expert.

A: vaccines have been withdrawn after undesirable effects were reviewed in the long term studies
so it's hardly a frivolous concern
the doctor's open letter would be more convincing if they didn't try to do the hep b technobabble and just focused on the precautionary principle

Doctor B: some nuance would've been nice if they compromised and agreed that the vaccine is novel and zero long term data. instead they go all out

this doesn't change any minds, it just makes people more hard set in their ways
The experts never acknowledge our Concerns and Expectations, that's an auto fail

Doctor A: just because other vaccines didn’t show long term effects doesn’t mean we can assume the same for MRNA vaccine

Doctor B: agreed. he is conflating the general antivax crowd with the COvid antivax crowd

A: vaccines recall isn't rare
there's a reason we usually take 15 years to fully approve most vaccines
if what he say is true we can just scrap all long term trials, protocols and data collection

Doctor B: when i was in medical school, one professor insisted that open heart surgery was the gold standard for heart disease and not balloon + stent
when pointed out that open heart surgery had a 10% mortality rate, he replied "it has better success rate"
IT HAS BETTER SUCCESS COS THE FAILURES DIED

On Deepavali not being Commercialised in Singapore

Kirsten Han: Singapore: We are a multiracial society! We have Chinese, Malays, Indians and “Others” (CMIO)! We are an example to the world!

It’s #Deepavali today.

Singapore malls: MERRY CHRISTMAS

Please do better.

@miraxpath: Because Spore businesses are only about the $$$. So St Pat's day rather than Thaipusam to sell alcohol, Halloween. Xmas rather than Deepavali to sell overpriced alcohol and tat. If a fake disney festival were to be invented in Jan/Feb, CNY might be a goner.

Me: All businesses are about the $$$. Actually isn't it better for Hindus that capitalism doesn't hijack Deepavali?

@miraxpath: Sure. Kirsten worries more than most Hindus about mall decorations for Deepavali. Also, there is so much variety in the way Deepavali is celebrated, that there would be blood if capitalism got involved! What language, what day, what spelling of Deepavali, which myth, WTF!

Me: Can I quote you on that as a Hindu? Hehe

@miraxpath: I am not a hindu though.

Me: Damn, lose points.

Liberals vs Free Speech and Habeas Corpus

A: Nazis always hide behind liberal notions of freedom of speech.

Me: Yup. Soon liberals will advocate suspending habeas corpus to deal with Nazis. So if you defend legal due process you'll literally be a Nazi

A: Ironically, you’re not wrong.

Me: Sounds like Nazism isn't so bad after all, compared to the alternative

A: I guess that proves my point.

Me: Lol

Conversations - 8th May 2018

A: the strange thing about sangy is that her antics over the years have made me more proud to be chinese and less tolerant of minorities when they start to make noise. imagine that
and that's saying a lot given I am not a chinese-educated chinese
pressing ethnocentric buttons works both ways"

B: The irony is she doesn't go back to where she's the majority but goes somewhere else to be a minority to whine about being a minority. She definitely has a persecution complex.

A: she believes that all tamils are being oppressed
also she hates tamil men
so there is no place for her to go to
lol


Me: "from what I've heard, if you're one guy in a women's studies class you get so much pussy"

A: As someone who was one of only two men in a module in feminist studies (which I scored an A for, I might add), I can tell you that it is not true.

Me: Wow why did you take that class

A: Well it seemed a lot more interesting than Syntax and Sentence Structure.
And so I can tell rabid feminists I know what I'm talking about cos I got an A in it.

B: ^^^^^
Famous last words.


A: Kumbaya + envy + persecution mindset = sjw

I note that social activism groups become toxic once a lot of their initial goals have been met

Could be due to mission creep or manipulative opportunists joining the movement as it becomes more popular

B: Don't just fist pump. Turn around, do a sweeping point at everyone else and shout "LOSERS!"

hahaha

A: *triggered

I think I have figured out the difference between sjw privilege and underprivileged as we commonly understand it

SJW privilege sees all unequal outcomes as inherently unfair even if these advantages came from people having their shit together

Fat woman is morally superior to one who worked to keep fit because she has less access to good outcomes

Sjw privilege also carries on to issues that a person could realistically do something about

Such as minorities picking up Chinese or letting their children do so if they want to break into jobs requiring a Chinese speaker

SJW also views the transference of advantages that one generation worked hard to get to future ones as a sin

Therefore if you are born in Sg you are "privileged" and need to give what your ancestors worked hard to earn for you to other parties to level things out

The notion of you working to solidify these advantages by building on them causes the SJW to go insane, because it goes against the anticompetitive ethos of the people who jump onto these bandwagons

All this is very different from the commonly understood notion of needing to help the underprivileged- those by whom nature has dealt a bad hand through no fault of their own

B: yah

so i'm for helping the underprivileged
disabled or orphans etc

but when it comes to something that you can work on... and you choose not to... then... go and die lor

A: I read this article where this doctor was against reading to your kids

Because it privileges them versus kids whose parents don't have the time to do so

Wtf

B: yes

and so we should make sure all kids are malnourished too because you know, some kids are

and please inject all kids with viruses and diseases and amputate as necessary

Conversations - 21st July 2016

A: I ask my Punjab friend why he married a Chinese girl

He said in simple terms, Indian girls aren't worth the trouble to tier 1 Indian dudes

B: too much drama?

A: Yep and persecution mentality

Also a lot of them are super banged and are looking for a dude to settle down with before they completely check out in looks

There are a lot of tier 3 and 4 Indian dudes, but those Indian girls don't want them.

Sangy herself dated a Chinese dude

Must be some crazy shit- dating a Indian race baiter- if you piss her off she will just drop the racism hammer on your head and sic local SJWs on you

Anyway tier 1 Indian dudes can easily outgame the average Chinese dude here

C: Tier 1 vs tier 3-4 scrubs mah

A: Gives lie to sangy's assertion being chinky is absolute powah

But we all already knew that


Someone: Marriage is about giving in for some things so you can earn brownie points to get away with other things
For guys at least

Me: Hurr. Then for women?

Someone: Well. It's about not driving your man so nuts that he decides to leave?


A: The more datapoints I collect the more I am forced to conclude that a homophobic possibly repressed homosexual fundamentalist megachurch pastor is more tolerant than many of the Pink Dot acolytes.

Me: Well we know sjws aren't tolerant

B: I think it's important to separate the actual lgbt folk from many of the SJWs pushing for their cause

Me: Most lgbts don't care about this shit. They just want a quiet life
And Singapore gives them that

A: Yep

Singapore has the most vibrant and lucrative LGBT scene in the region

Gay publications constantly point out Singapore as a good place to get action

The activism isn't really about allowing LGBT folk to practice

Anyway in Lawrence Khong's case there is lots of speculation he is closeted- in any case comparisons of him and westboro fail- he regularly employs LGBT folk for his events and prominent members of his church (Sam Willows) support pink dot openly.

I wonder how that works.

Me: Practice? Practise sodomy ah

A: Yah lor

Me: Ahem


Someone: The minds of Trans and cis people are different! Stop being a bigot and demand they be like you!

The brains of gay and straight people are different. It's not a choice stop asking people not to be gay!

The brains of men and women are different? You sexist mysoggykneest!

It's only different when it suits social justice

Me: Everything is 100% determined by socialisation. Except sexual preference which is innate and cannot be changed. If you think it can be changed you're a bigot.

Conversations - 12th February 2016

"Sex is the consolation you have when you can't have love" - Gabriel García Márquez

***

Someone: Seriously, the hotter the woman asking for entry into [Facebook group], the more I check to make sure shes not a bot or spammer. Sad

Someone else: Real hot chicks usually aren't smart

Someone: SPECIAL stat points cannot all roll high

Me: I think hot women spend a lot of time on their looks. So no time to waste arguing online

Someone else: My hypothesis as well

Also their interests will be on look based things
Even the supposed lookers with a "brain" aren't that smart

It could also be because women have a narrower bell curve than man
Men tend to be very smart or dumb


Someone: i want her to explicitly explain to me
i really want to know whats on her mind now
why is she getting so upset

Me: Because you're not "getting it"

Someone: if she cant explain it
it means 1) she cant explain well
or 2)im male and i wont understand

then
thats sexist to me

harrumph

Me: Feminists expect people to agree with them after they've been "educated"
As you saw in the *** thread they assume they're infallible

Someone: oh, they dont assume
they know

these few days have been really interesting for me

i dont go to their pages or tag them
they come to me right

so....

theyre engaging me, then leaving

now i wonder if it is because i am really so dense
which i think not because they leave in unsatisfactory manners


A: I said Gab is a devils advocate, reasonable chap.

B: yea devils advocate would be right

Me: Why do people keep calling me devil's advocate. I do believe most things I say ok

C: I think cause you always want to test the logic/ consistency of every statement

it is rigorous and fair
but it comes across sometimes as you are objecting just for its own sake

Me: Haha

Maybe it's because I am logically consistent but ideologically I do not support one side just because it is my side

A: Agree with C, you test for consistency, and sometimes to someone not used to you, it feels like you are undermining their argument

But someone used to it will get used to the idea of it being a test of structural stability of the argument

Me: I think bad arguments should be undermined

B: because most SGs aren't used to rigorous thinking
they react badly to disagreements


Someone: btw
*** is a ranger

Me: my dream is to be a power ranger

Someone else: whoa whoa whoaaaaa!!!!

Someone: SEPARATE ISSUE
冷静！冷静！冷静！

Gabriel you forgot your meds
here, have some fairy dust


Someone else: Why am I being quoted.

Me: "I shall never be ashamed of citing a bad author if the line is good" - Seneca


A: [Feminist] is from the school of "I don't care what she did you cannot hit her.". Provocation is not a mitigating factor in her books.

Me: Get a woman to assassinate her father

A: Heh maybe she will blame her father

But I dun think can la, father probably dead by now, dead white male must be forgotten.

Anyway she does not accept any mitigating factors of any kind if a man hits a woman, pointing that out is victim blaming

She told me to give an example, recounted an incident from youth in which my mom was goading my dad to hit her during a fight, all the while destroying his stuff.

Dad to his credit, stayed calm. Any person would be hard pressed not to respond

[Feminist]'s response? "Not my problem you have mommy issues and want to victim blame."

That was one of the things she said that was a turning point in how I regarded feminism.

B: wow. projection much. she is victim blaming you and your father and then accusing you of victim blaming


A: men get catcalls from women and nobody gives a fuck

women dresses up in super tight clothes SPECIFICALLY to get catcalls and the world loses their shit

Me: Wasn't she wearing jeans and a tshirt

A: tight jeans, tight black T

B: 11 Powerful Photos Show What It Feels Like to Be Fat in America - Mic

"Health and beauty at any size." Seems legit

C: lol
if they are hot, then they say people are catcalling
if they are not but people still look at them, then they say people are judging
if people ignore them, then they are being discriminated against

knn no need to try so hard to be victim all the time leh


Someone On The Fappening: I don't recall such a huge uproar during the Edison Chen affair
In fact IIRC the same people defending the right of the US celebrities to take nude selfies were bashing Chen

Conversations - 30th July 2014

TMM: I think she's [not ugly, she's] ok

[Yet] there are some issues no matter how enlightenned a woman says or thinks she is
its never wise to approach


Someone: In my experience, open rs or sharing options evaporate after first time she comes.
Then oxytocin comes in and does its work, and poof, no more open

Me: So she shouldn't come
Haha

Someone: Yep. Exactly

...

bj fb versus all the way fb...

btw, a BJ FB doesn't mean you need to go down yourself. You'll be surprised at lucky finds...

I suspect that some of the smarter gals also dislike how they can be gamed so easily

Me: If they're so smart how can they be gamed so easily hehe

Someone: Alcohol lol...

You're one of the few ones online whom I get wary when debating. The others are easy side dishes


Someone else: why do i get the impression that the "humanists" are the ones who are illiterate in science and statistics and who can't read to save their lives?

there's so much ad hominems and red herrings getting thrown around

Me: Ad hominem is not science and stats

Which post do you mean

Someone else: practically any post that covers religion?

Me: Yep. It's called cognitive bias.

Someone else: i give up on the vincent wijeysingha liar thread

idiot humanist said i didn't mention the EASTERN CHURCH etc etc

well obviously i didn't because vincent's accusation was on the western church
Phht

i like how attempted rape is rape in the eyes of liberals
but how attempted molest of vincent wijeysingha is not molest in the eyes of liberals

Me: "He's a liar. But he's our liar"

Someone else: i'd like to see some guy try out this defense in court

"i did not molest her on the bus. i ATTEMPTED UNSUCCESSFULLY to molest her on the bus."

you may extract that as a quote

amused that... etc

Me: Hurr


Someone: Seems to me [having a car is] a criteria for many women [for dating]

Me: no wonder people here go into debt to get one
no wonder guys go for vietnamese brides


Me:I guess for calling out his cyber bullying I got blocked

Someone else: oh, then you are blocked
and so am i

anyway, you can just log out of facebook
and read the link
apparently he's a facebook retard
sets everything to public

blocks people who call him out
without realising they can still see what he posts if they don't log into facebook

i only block people who don't bother to argue logically and resort to ad hominems and other fallacies

Me: I don't block people unless they're stalkers. keep your friends close, and your frenemies closer


Someone: re: ***'s post + the comments... i give up. :P

Me: lol

as I said once you see "privilege"...

that's why I'm looking for a lesbian, post-op transsexual, muslim, poor woman from a post-colonial country

she'll be invincible in liberal circles

cannot disagree with her
or you're homophobic, transphobic, islamophobic, bourgeois, colonialist, sexist...

Someone: I'm female and I cannot stand feminists with no sense of humor. And people who argue by throwing all that academic arguments at me... Well, my job takes up too much of my soul already. I don't need all that shit, summore on Facebook.

Haha when u find such a woman... Lemme know. I'd love to speak to her too

Me: :D

well whatever I say will be dismissed because I am male and not queer
so no point

Someone: I'm female, bi and still I'm dismissed but only because I don't see it from a feminist's pov

Me: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Someone: Feminists are hard to cross. Once u do... Terbaboom

Me: how do they dismiss you?

Someone: its buried somewhere inside all that feminist's arguments and defense statements. i bet some of the girls in there are like... HOW CAN SHE NOT SEE IT AND SHE'S FEMALE.

maybe they need to lighten up. oh wait. cannot. BECAUSE OTHERWISE WOMEN WILL FOREVER BE MARGINALIZED AND DISCRIMINATED AGAINST FOR BEING WOMEN.

ZZZ

Me: that's why they have such venom reserved for sarah palin and margaret thatcher

because they are female yet disagree

Someone: i cannot argue with extremely educated feminists. i lose cos i not crever enough. i am just a human being who appreciates humour when i see it.

Me: However crever I am useless. Cos I'm a man.

Someone: ur appendage is ur disadvantage. what to do.

Me: Chop it off.

Someone: pls even if u do, u wont be able to please feminists (they're really hard to please eh) and worse, u won't be able to please other females too. so keep it, and just stay out of gender-related arguments that feminists have decided to participate in.

Me: one of my friends scolds me for wasting time reading what stupid people wrote
and that she's resolved not to argue with feminists because it's a waste of time


Someone else: I was in sg last week
and for some reason
I found the girls in sg to be less pretty on average than when I last was there
which I found rather surprising since there are fewer fatties in sg than the uk

Me: Hehe your standards have risen

Someone else: yeah my standards seem to have risen by stealth
without me being aware

spoke to my friend about it and apparently it was the same for him
but his theory was different

he said the chinese girls overseas (at least where he was based) were better dressed and well spoken on average than the chinese girls in sg

I guess that is true, but I don't think its the entire reason
:s

the accent the girls from china have in speaking chinese sound a lot more pleasant than those girls from china in sg
I think its the effect of the wealth the chinese expats uk draws compared to sg

Conversations - 6th June 2014

Me: haha you are friends with jeraldine phneah

Someone: yes indeed
i consider it an honour to be friends with someone *** lee and her civil society coterie called a bimbo

*** "check your privilege" lee and her friends
civil society activists

"liberals" like ***

when called out on the irony of them using sexist demeaning language, *** told me and the eidtor of TOC - you're all male chauvinists thinking you've gone to the rescue of a poor sweet defenseless creature
card carrying member of Aware, that ***

Me: did you pull the 'check your straight privilege' card on her?

Someone: heh. nope. i didn't bother.
she pulled the i know what feminism is, and if you disagree with me, please go and read your beauvoir, butler, etc and come back to me
i can't be bothered with crazies like her


Someone else: i think humanists can be freaking proud and they don't listen to people with expertise

they think just because they read a lot and are supposingly good in logic they know it all

humanists/rationaists/ whatever. that kind

ppl with knowledge in IT, events-organising, media, finance etc, law, they don't listen to them

and sometimes these ppl who have experience and expertise in specific skills may not be very very free or may not express them in a very scientifically watertight manner u know
but that doesn't mean they don't know their shit

Me: I think it's an identity thing
When your identity revolves around something you get uptight
And exclusionary

Someone else: that is i think the biggest weakness of many of them
they don't listen!


Someone: recently someone asked me if he should go to Singapore
He is polyamorous/bisexual himself. Specifically he asked about how sexually liberal Singaporeans are
I told him if such things matter a lot to him then he should go elsewhere
(And I cited the results of the survey conducted by the SG govt in January regarding Singaporeans' attitudes towards various lifestyle choices)
Always handy when there are official numbers quantifying just how narrow-minded a population is


Someone else: the guy should check all the boxes on my list of criteria

Me: This list thing is a very girl thing Tsk

Someone else: Well growing up in this day and age people tell you not to compromise

Me: Compromise is a fact of life

Someone else: Yea that's why so many educated women are left on the shelf
I think that's what happened to my aunt

Me: If you can't compromise in what you want in a partner, how will you compromise in a marriage ?


Me: How long a wait is necessary before spoiler tags no longer need to be put?

Someone: Infinity. Spoiler tags are always needed. It's just courtesy really. Given everyone's lack of time, one can sometimes take months to catch up with shows.

Me: Spoiler: Darth Vader is Luke's father


Someone else: i was just telling my dutch friend how i get a lot of racist commments thrown at me on a daily basis. like i cycle past some stupid teens and they shout chingchong at me
and he didnt believe me

Me: do you? hmm
I think I got that all of once

Someone else: he said dutch people are very tolerant and open minded
and im like why dont you believe me

Me: seriously I didn't experience that... maybe once or twice

Someone else: and i always tell him oh somebody called me chingchong again etc etc. he NEVER believes me
and claims it might be german or tourists.

Me: google glass
evidence

I dont think anyone has ever called me chingchong

though related
like keep konnichiwa me even though I tell them I'm not jap
or in a club it was gangnam style (this was may 2013) then one guy came up to kachiao me

Someone else: so the other day we went clubbing and one of his friends started, for no reason, totally unprovoked, calling me loempia OVER AND OVER again. and i was drunk so i got very violent and started shoving him and my friends had to pull me away

Me: :/
stuff a loempia in his mouth

Someone else: and it was then he realised fuck this really does happen, and that person happened to be HIS friend
and he was very shocked and said i reallllyyyyy didnt believe you

usually my friends call me loempia or bamishijv or bamiblok or bsian or all those jokes and it's fine cos it's in context and it's funny and i like my friends.
i totally didnt know who he is

Me: Yeah. I send my black friend racist jokes
it's not a racist thing. It's politeness

Someone else: the worst was i kena 3 people shout at me on a single 10min bike home

it's social bonding

anyway. the day i kena 3 people shout at me right, usually they are in packs of teens and cos theyw anna look cool etc
but one time this SINGLE teenage GIRL just rode by me on her motor scooter and stuck her head out in my direction and shouted at me

honestly, it was rather admirable. this girl got guts. she got the balls to just be racist without having to prove a point to her idiot friends.

i was just like wow hmm not bad got balls

ya can blame belgians etc but this is The South. ie fucking hicks

Me: Haha. Damn Catholics

Someone else: it's only teenagers though. the old people/uni kids are always very nice and polite to me.

Me: Aiyah teens everywhere like to be like that

Adults how

Someone else: most are alright, but at the risk of sounding a bit shallow and stupid, ive learnt to judge based on the clothes they wear. if they are well-dressed/ uni student -looking, then tend to be nice to me. but if they dress like eurotrash almost 80% of the time they will be a complete dick.

i was just telling my friend how i have come to hate girls who wear this http://media2.onsugar.com/files/2012/11/47/3/192/1922261/5e421a19e5ecabe2_OPalermo112112.xxxlarge_1.jpg



because i always kena shit from people who wear coats like this
hahahaha

Me: Stereotypes persist and endure because they are often true

Marshmallow man!

Someone else: yeah. i mean, i have to learn who i can approach, right?

Me: What shit do they give you

Someone else: the shinier the coat (like, garbage bag sort of shiny), the shittier they are
matte puffy coats like that arent as shitty

the usual yknow. shout racist shit, talk very loudly, hang out in groups in public places and make a scene

between 2 girls who wear matte and shiny coats, if i need directions/translation/any sort of help, i will not approach any of them hahaha

Healthcare in Singapore: socialising the benefits and privatising the costs

How to reassure Ah Pek on the Pioneer Package

"Perhaps the challenge really lies in the complexity of the design. From a policy perspective, the PGP sits on top of the existing 3M (Medisave, MediShield, Medifund), Chas (Community Health Assist Scheme) and CDMP (Chronic Disease Management Programme) schemes, which arguably, most Singaporeans do not fully understand anyway. In the proposed system, there are multiple tiers of subsidy depending on whether the presenting disease is deemed "simple" or "complex", whether the disease is included in the CDMP, and so on.

The contrast with many countries with universal health coverage is stark. The message should be simple: At the point you need health care, concentrate on getting well; don't worry about money. In many schemes globally, there are no co-payments required, or if there are, these are in the form of fixed amounts with annual limits. In Singapore, the individual's co-payment can soar while the Government's share (subsidy amount) is capped.

Australia announced in its Budget last week that the government would impose a A$7 (S$8.20) co-payment for each visit to the general practitioner, up to a total of A$70 a year for concessional patients.

No caveats depending on type of disease, no exclusions depending on housing type or income. Just a simple A$7 figure to understand and remember.

This brings me to the second point. It is better to frame the scheme to be viewed through the lens of the pioneer and not the policymaker.

While $9 billion is an admirable commitment to the health- care needs of the pioneer generation, the pioneer would much rather know what he needs to pay individually rather than the amount the Government subsidises.

Imagine the thoughts running through the mind of a pioneer: "Yes, it is good to know there is a $28.50 per visit subsidy for a common illness like a cough or cold, but how much do I need to pay? Nothing? $10? $20? More?"

In stores, it is clever marketing to highlight a large discount - but what really matters to the customer is what he pays, not the discount. The Government's concerns over unanticipated costs and the instinct to safeguard public coffers are understandable and perhaps even natural.

But to the Singaporean living on $1,000 a month, a mis-estimation of the medical bill by $50 is 5 per cent of all he has; to the Government, the same mis-estimation occurring for even 10 per cent of our pioneers is $2.25 million, or barely a quarter of a per cent of the $9 billion allocated.

Perhaps the risk of getting the numbers wrong is a yoke easier borne by the Government's accountants than by elderly Singaporeans."

(Emphasis mine)


Me: let me guess.. gahmen partly owns our restructured hospitals

Someone: no
Gaahmen 100% owns restructured hospitals

Me: HAHA
then restructure simi

Someone: restructure the costs
"socialise the costs... and privatise the benefits"
that's 1 aspect. the other is that healthcare workers were previously considered civil servants

Me: so more expensive

Someone: meaning they enjoyed civil service benefits, and yes more ex
not to mention that the life expectancy of HCW is actually slightly lower
cos of the stresss, night shifts and constant garbage that MOH threw out

Me: actually since 1994 new civil servants have had SHIT benefits

Someone: yea well... $$$

Me: trying to keep the civil service young
well too bad young people wont stay

Someone: also, HCW as civil servants meant that the old fear of a commie insurrection thru the ranks of HCW, was still alive

that's my conspiracy theory
but essentially the new scheme afforded them the powers of a corporate entity, that could fire people at will
purely to "cut costs"
but have administrative bloat

Me: ah yes very important
and can hire lots of foreigners
cos no longer civil servants
and can claim that civil service has few employees
lower turnover!

Someone: MOH owns MOH Holdings, which owns all the hospitals
thru the clusters

yes, forgot about that
becos of the neverending exodus of HCW (nurses, drs, and allied health)
this new system afforded Ah Gong flexiibility to hire cheap foreign labor in unlimited numbers

yea... cos I think staff turnover is a minor KPI for civil service? can't recall
in 2004-2007, when the system shifted to the flat rate reimbursement
some people made noise

MOH responded by getting MOHH to fire them
"services no longer required"
"corporate decision"

Last time, in 1994 during the restructuring, MOH paid hosp per subsidised pts seen
so hosp made money based on factory converyor belt
but still made money seeing subsidised, so it was in a sense still ok

sicne the recent change, its flat rate and "I don't care if you sink or swim"
which causes the hospitals to scramble to get rid of subsidised patients

Me: no wonder so hard to have subsidised appts now

eh so how does the "subsidy" work if hospitals are not paid per patient?
and how do they ensure govt hospitals dont dump subsidised patients

Someone: they don't.

like i said, MOH 2010 ruling: dump subsidised
essentially a Gahmen decree to turn a profit at the expense of subsidised patients, but also not to let the public find out

Me: hurr

Someone: now hosp must stretch their dollar... and the rich subsidise the poor, indirectly, so... dunno good or bad

Me: so the so-called subsidy is really a price ceiling set by the government
and not a real subsidy

I'm sure this is not a secret
can I blog it

Someone: well
it says something about the system that a cold chill runs down my spine just when ou asked that question
and i worry about my license

well since there's no hard copy of the decree, its all hearsay anyway

Me: yeah so a hard copy exists somewhere

Someone: heh. so who's gonna find it?
Lisbeth Salander?

Conversations - 7th May 2014

Someone: one of my exes took 40-45min showers
it was one of the things that pissed me off the most

Me: is that why you turned lesbian?

Someone: no.
thats why i dumped him though.


Someone else: If you tell a black woman to marry or date out,
usually they get offended and they say one of two things 1) Other men
are too weak or 2) other men don't find them attractive.


Me: What I told a lothario friend: "women are like money. You think more will make you happy but not really Past a certain amount"

Someone: absolutely
where really does limitless satisfaction lie
ertainly not in orgasm

Me: Well until you recover

Someone: that's the thing
need to recover
I can milk more satisfaction out of quora than out of my cock


Someone else: I've asked other Asians this, but never a Singaporean man, when you were young did you your father, cousins, older brother, uncles ever talk to you about how to "talk to women"...in America, this is pretty normal...I learned most things from my uncle and older cousins...

Me: wow no wonder americans are so good


Someone on the licensing framework: apparently both of us couldn't really be bothered to slam the MDA
are we showing our age?
=P

Me: haha
I've been blogging since 2001
the more things change...


Me: do you remember... there was this song we sang in choir
an opera chorus which got translated into mandarin
not Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves

Philip Yeo's Best Friend: Lol they are many
Might you be thinking of Cavalliera Rusticana
he villagers move about the square, singing of the beautiful spring day (Gli aranci olezzano sui verdi margini – "The air is sweet with orange blossoms")

Me: the description sounds familiar
there was something about people going about doing things

Philip Yeo's Best Friend: Umm yes
果园的金色的蜜橘散发芳香花丛间百灵鸟婉转地歌唱

Me: I see you were traumatised too

Philip Yeo's Best Friend: Yes
Many brain cells were wastedon this

Me: unlike me you didnt just memorise the pronunciation
the orchestral version sounds v diff from the piano reduction
aha yes I think this is
thanks

Philip Yeo's Best Friend: R u feeling nostalgic
Are you planning an alumni concert
SONGS the Way They Were Intended

Yes lol I did it recently with mit chorus
as the MIT chorus director put it its very popular cause it's hard to fuck up

Me: it's remarkable how you guys remember it after 16-7 years


Someone on the above (before I showed him the lyrics): 果園裡金色的蜜橘散發芳香


Someone else: Mainland women, 90% will only marry someone with a house and a car
and Mainlanders mean "own" as in no mortgage

that is why there is so much pressure on men here
and tehy work like dogs, have little fun in life
they spend all their youth working their ass off just to get some
greedy bitch so they can have bad sex
and make one kid in some overpriced ugly apartment bloc
Chinese Dream is a fucking nightmare
fuck that

If I was a Chinese guy and I lived in Shanghai, i would simply save money to buy a wife from Vietnam (cheaper) and never buy a house in this bubble, because it is stupid to do so actually, buy a car, and just work and have as much fun as possible


Someone: who is this clown ***?

Me: You whack lor

Someone: have to ask you first mah
sekali you're trying to bang her
or are banging her
then I whack how?

Me: hahahahahaha
then I'llwhack you back lor

Someone: walao you don't respect the bro code

Me: gays are exempted ;)

Someone: the hell, gays not bros meh
:0

On 377D of the Penal Code: when only being psychic is enough to avoid criminal liability

Someone: nope. I remember reading the bad law in a printed judgement and thinking that it was really screwy. I think the judge also subtly hinted at how his powers were restricted by it as well

Re solving it... Hmmm, I havent thought that much into how it can be reworded fairly

According to my ex-police boss, he joked that even if ask for ID, you still get screwed. Seems like the law is the one that is flawed.

Me: yep
as the law society article pointed out
oh well

Someone: Maybe 2 matching ID's or something.

Me: if you ask for ID and get fake ID and she's 17... at least fine

Someone: A lousy solution yeah.

Me: wondering how many will show ID

Someone: Odds are, probably none. Those men just got bloody unlucky.
Or rather, I reword.
Those men were doomed regardless of what they did in mitigation

Me: looks like asking her age saves you 1 week at least
I think the first underaged one showed her sister's IC right
well seeing IC = even better mitigation than just asking age

Someone: That Buegin guy? Yep. Sister's ID

Me: so how come he still got hit with such a heavy penalty

Someone: I'm not sure. Also, the fradulent use of the ID - we have history of charging people for the false use of ID to enter casinos... not on basis of evading the $100 fee, but with regards to the mens rea of using the ID to cheat others into thinking you are another person

So by rights, there is precedent available to charge the girl with misuse of ID
If i remember right. Operating off memory here rather than google and/or my achived legal material

Me: if you're underaged and use fake ID to enter a club are you liable?

we must look at the underaged part here
I think fake ID to buy cigarettes, you're liable

Someone: ". This is in stark contrast to the law relating to minors’ purchase of cigarettes. Any person under 18 years of age who purchases, uses or has in his possession a tobacco product is guilty of an offence and liable upon conviction to a fine of up to $300"

Re entering the club - not aware of any cases of that nature. I suppose though, that the consequence is small in the eyes of the state

Me: it's sexist lah
and moralistic

Someone: Yes it is
I think that the law is full of outdated stuff. This is one of them.

Me: hard to call it outdated
it was enacted a few years ago

Someone: changing laws takes 1-2 years, and sometimes, even if in process of changing it, even if it turns out fucked up, you have to wait for the next window to change it again

as folks upstairs will inevitably ask 'why the hell wasnt this spotted before!!! You expect me to get embarassed before Parliament?"'

Has happened before

Me: hurr hurr
I doubt they'll change it they made it fucked up for a reason la

it's politically hard to support the rights of prostitutes or johns

Someone: Well, I wont say they made it fucked up out of malice - moreso because overworked policy officers were just too burned out to game out the possibilities

I was one before, and yes, i kicked myself for not spotting some stuff before it went to Parliament

Generally, a law that has been passed wont be fixed, unless it becomes an embarrassment.
On the global stage. e.g the oral sex law.

At least in this govt. There are too many high salaries at stake, to be the dickhead who keeps giving the Minister more work.

Ne: not malice but it's strategic ambiguity
the compromise between:
- recognising that you cant stamp it out
- difficulty of ousting existing brothels even if they wanted to
- 'conservative' moral views

it was a *deliberate* insertion to remove the fact of honest mistakes from possible defences la. it was inserted on purpose

yeah legal inertia

Someone: Generally, if its an insertion (e.g. 377D), i try to trace down the parliamentary report for the change
Oh the removal of defence thing. Gimme a sec to correctly name it

Yep 377D. The one that shafted the angmo dude. The one that says that reasonable mistake of age its not a defence.

Well tracing legislative history. For example, lemme trace back 377D and show you the process

You got the Penal Code on Statutes online open?

Me: oh I didnt know it was 377D

it shafted a lot of people la

51/2007
not long ago
they put it in to screw people

Someone: Yep. im doing the trace... gimme a sec

[I'm] Tracing back legislative history, so that i can see when 377D was inserted, and so trace back the Hansard (parliamentary debate minutes) where the Bill was first debated

You can do the same by clicking legislative history at the top of the page. See it>?
After clicking on it, scroll down to the bottom.

Basically, legis history, scroll down, ignore the consequential changes -e.g. criminal procedure code etc, as those are just changing of terminology caused by other acts changing

If you are lucky, you get links to the old Acts, before they changed

In this case, we got lucky.

Its the same change that inserted 377A, which is no wonder 377D got overlooked in all that debate

Me: 377A got inserted? it was just retained right

Someone: Nope the old 377 got wiped. 377A was inserted together with 377D and a few others

Ok, its the famous Hansard of 23 Oct 2007 thereabouts - the 2nd and 3rd reading where Thio went on about drinking thru a straw and all that nonsense

Me: oh well

sigh
and now ~50 men are screwed

Someone: Next I go here
Publications - Singapore Parliament Reports | Parliament Of Singapore

Me: wonder who mischievously inserted the line about an honest mistake

Someone: Found the Hansard - yep, no debate on 377D at all. It got overlooked by Parliament in the midst of the 377A debate.

Singapore Parliament Reports - Full Report: PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SINGAPORE. OFFICIAL REPORT. ELEVENTH PARLIAMENT

Me: sigh

Thanks, gay activists.

Someone: Well to my experience, prolly an overworked policy officer drafted it shitty. And a manager overlooked it or edited it

Me: well as I said someone *actively* inserted the honest mistake clause

Someone: Generally, the Bill wil have gone thru several cuts

Me: the irony is lots more men have been prosecuted under 377D than 377A since this whole farce started in 2007

Someone: So fault can lie on Min, Dir, Mngr, legal advisor, or down to the officer who made that line.

You'll be quite shocked that its usually policy officers with utterly no legal experience makign the first cut of the wording of the law. If the lawyers in AGC dont spot it... and the Mngr, Dir, PS, Min, Parl all miss it...

Me: not surprised
legal training is an expensive skill

I thought bureaucracy is supposed to weed out this sort of problem

Someone: it can be self learnt to a certain extent. And sometimes, officers are driven by responsibility and guilt to learn how to draft shit better

Me: I hope whoever drafted this feels bad.

Someone: Doesnt work well on paper. Problem with many layers of clearing, is that subtle naunces of the wordings in the law get missed

Me: depends on the clearers

Someone: There is an old joke that what you drafted as a policy officer becomes completely different by the time it reaches the Min, and you get all the blame.

See, your bosses summarise your stuff.

So the explanations get dropped first

Once you lose the footnotes, the next layer thinks it ok to change stuff

And yes, you can see it change... But if your PS or Min changes your draft, sometimes you arent privy to the changes when it happens because it is far above your level... and sometimes you know it is career suicide to debate with a busy Min when his clearance comes in at 2am at night and you gotta prep to send it to Parliament

A lot of folks don't understand why the system fails us... not without having either been on the inside. And the govt dont help by not making the process more transparent.

Me: Your bosses change everything also

Yeah people just blame "gahmen"

On paying for software vs blocking ads on websites/in software

Me: I gifted a US$1.49 game to the guy who never pays for anything he can pirate
459 ratings, 5 stars
king of dragon pass
gotta e good
my note was "this may just possibly be the first digitally available game that you own that has had money paid for it"

Someone: ask your... friend
if he thinks software developers are subhuman and do not deserve to be paid for their work

Me: I think it's similar to your "my bandwidth, my rules" rule for blocking ads

Someone: ha
ads are not quite the same as stuff being made and sold directly by the same person

Me: eh
you think there's a direct link between the developer and the purchase meh
developer is paid by game company
game company is paid by publisher
publisher is paid by store/online platform
website is paid by ad company
ad company is paid by advertisers depending on views/clicks
so the link is shorter for ads even

Someone: when it comes to apps
developers paid directly by google
and do you honestly think writing an app for users is the same as advertising
i'm all of blocking ads in apps
there's a difference between providing a service
and brainwashing

Me: how are ads brainwashing
ads are an alternative way of supporting a product/service
it's the same as a list price. just a different model

Someone: using an app without paying for it and blocking ads is different

Me: when you write an app for users you either sell it and get $1 upfront from user X
or you make it adware and get $0.01 a month (assumption) from user X

Someone: yes,
and i think adware is scum

Me: then dont use it

Someone: i don't
but we aren't talking about this
why do yuo keep changing
i am saying
your friend who doesn't pay for his ads
er
apps

Me: well I was talking about downloading games

Someone: does he think the people who writes them don't need to be paid for their work

Me: it's all the same
ars technica wrote something on this
I'm sure you know

Someone: ads
is not the same
as writing a program
good god
if yuo honestly think it's the same
then let's just agree to disagree
i'm not trying to sell you someone else's product when i write an application
i don't try to change your perception of anything
when i offer you my service as an app developer

Me: no they're not the same
ads <- way to get paid writing an app <- service ads are to the price of an app as writing an app is to maintaining a website err. like that when I talk to you about this issue I'm also trying to change your perception of the issue Someone: yes, but it's a two way discussion

Me: you seem to view advertising as coercive

Someone: advertising is coercive
????

Me: no it's persuasive
there's a difference

Someone: a very fine one
and if you let htem have their way
it would be coercive
so don't
compare my living
with advertising

Me: anyway if you don't like apps with ads, don't use them
if you don't like websites with ads, don't visit them

Someone: we aren't talking about whether i like apps
or use htem
if they're supported by ads
for the last time
we are talking about your friend
paying app developers
for their apps

Me: and I am using the same principle in a different context

that's like saying it's not ok for A to kill B with a chainsaw
but it's ok for C to kill D with an axe

Someone: but we aren't discussing that context

i am saying
that writing an app and putting it on sale
is not the same as writing an article on the net and showing it with ads
do you hoenstly not see the difference

Me: nope

Someone: the second one involves the premise that your content is freely accessible
it's like giving out newspapers
the app itself is not accessible without paying for it unless you pirate
or if it's ad supported
it's a all or nothing thing
if you want the app you buy it
and at no point in this process do i say, hey, i think you need to buy these products from some 3rd party
it's just, do you want this app?
yes? give me some money
and you can use it
there are apps that are ad supported
by all means block those ads

Me: ad-supported websites are like places which require an admission fee to enter
but there's no ticket control, just a box for you to deposit your admission fee

Someone: no, yuo don't need to deposit any admission fee...
sigh
when you enter
someone gives you a flyer that says
buy this shit
at no point in this do you give anyone any money
also they take your photograph and fingerprints
enough for lousy analogy yet?

Me: well in that case it's wrong to kill someone with a chainsaw because it's motorised
but an axe is okay because it's human powered

Someone: your latter analogy i completely do not understand whatsoever
how is killing people got anything to with this

Me: if you don't want to get the flyer or be photographed or get fingerprinted, don't go in
dont break in

Someone: it's not breaking in
no one loses anything
digital media
is not the same as traditional media

Me: if you break in without breaking locks, doors etc no one loses anything either

it's an opportunity cost in both senses
killing people <-> paying people for their work
axe <-> paying for apps
chainsaw <-> ads

Someone: there are different penalties for theft and murder...
haiya ok i want to play game
but you should think about this a bit more

Me: yes it's different for new media
so it's ok to pirate apps also
I have thought about this
that's why months (years?) after you told me you block ads I'm talking about it

Someone: no it's not, the fundamental difference is
i don't try to sell you
someone else's product
and i don't give you my app for free
blocking ads is not because
i'm opposed to giving websites my money

Me: yes so as I've said if you philosophically disagree with the funding model just dont use the product
instead of using the product without paying
while condemning those who use products without paying in other instances

Someone: i honestly can't believe you think advertising and revenue sharing from appstore are the same
i think you are far mroe intelligent than that
and you are being contrary for hte sake of being contrary

Me: the issue is not whether they are the same
the issue is whether pirating paid apps is the same as blocking ads on ad-supported websites
it may be faster to kill someone with a chainsaw than an axe
but in both cases the person ends up dead

Someone: and i'ts not
sigh
yeah okay look
we clearly fundamentally disagre about this

Me: yes
just go play your game
just accept that intelligent people can disagree over issues without being contrary for the sake of being contrary

Someone: i do

Me: well you just claimed that I was being contrary for the sake of being contrary
I suspect people think I;m trolling when I say I support incest

Someone: but you haven't rebutted my point about selling someone else's product either

it's not the same, is it?
we're talking about different things
you're talking about how the website is being killed
i'm talking about differnet kinds of revenue streams
but somehow
you have conflated both topics
i'm only interested in the appstore

Me: so dont use ad supported websites/apps

Someone: yesw
yes i agree w
don't use them w

Me: so why do you have an ad blocker?

Someone: because i can't get away from ads
can i?
it's not as easy as don't use them
do you see the difference?
i try my best
not to use ad supported software
and websites
and i pay for those that i do
btu i can't
stop
myself
from seeing ads
even then
again
my use of an adblocker
is not because i'm opposed to giving websites my money

Me: so in that case it's more of a practical issue than a philosophical one
like a vegetarian will eat meat if the alternative is death

Someone: and what about the sites that have no alternatives?
facebook doesn't let me pay to get rid of ads
that's pretty lousy, isn't it?

Me: ok. so the we have found the root of the disagreement

Conversations - 12th March 2013

Me on anti-377A activists convinced that it's only religious fanatics who are for the law: I wonder how many times you must repeat that

Someone: lol. as long as it takes. talking to them is like talking to the fundies, same difference.

Me: basically the moral of the story is that religion is only a special case of the general case
the general case being ideological blinkers


Someone else: haha...typical ideologue...these people always overreact...I don't get it, but some people only want to hear what they want to hear.

Me: heh
hatred of hatred is not a virtue
‘piety requires us to honor truth above our friends’

Someone else: you don't sound very Chinese. lol

Me: no I'm not
a lot of people hate me :P

Someone else: Yeah I can see that. :) Keep fighting the good fight.

Me: hurr
eventually I will have no friends left >:(

Someone else: It's hard being different, I know very well... especially if you try to be fair and rational, that simply pisses people off, especially in Asia. sigh... But what is more important having fewer friends or a lot of friends you can't stand because you have such contempt for them?

Me: I try not to have contempt for people
unless they are far gone
it's more that I am sad for them
I always talk about "the misery of the human condition"

Someone else: you are originally from Singapore?

wow...there is hope! Actually for Asians, Singaporeans are not nearly as bad as people in East Asia, I think it is the influence that comes in to the culture from speaking English and being multiracial.


Someone on Japanese adult videos (JAV): the debuts all seem to follow a "template"
the girls act as if they had a harsh life and were unwillingly being coerced into this
and slowly strip bit by bit
and act v uneasy to being groped and fondled
by the 2nd release they'd be damn horny and slutty


Someone else: He speaks fluent Chinese, so he was talking about the issues he had over the years with people in Taiwan, including a business partner due to face.

You want to know how he gets along with Chinese people, his advise?

Anyway his advise was pretty racist, but you know, I'm sure it works.

He says don't talk about anything complicated never challenge anyone publicly, never comment negatively about anyone or about Chinese culture or even how things are done locally as it is bound to piss someone off very badly (if coming from a foreigner), make a lot of jokes (no irony/sarcasm, they can't understand that and it usually makes them confused or angry)...what else? Basically he said talk to them like they are a 13 year old European with a small ego. And you can have a lot of Chinese friends, but you will feel sick to your stomach.

oh yeah he said never argue with Chinese people, because as a foreigner you can never win, and you risk making the person loose face...so just stop talking. YES it sounds like dealing with women.
In this way Asian culture is very feminine from a Western point of view.


Someone: eh i have anecdotal evidence against your asian-women-are-frigid claim. my korean friend says that most of the korean girls she knows are very promiscuous, and that korean girls are generally more promiscuous than korean-american girls
there's a thing where koreans go abroad for a year after high school to improve their english
and korean girls go really wild with western men during this time, having orgies and such
but when they go back to korea, they pretend to be all virginal.
i think it's really a problem with contemporary asian culture that's forcing asian women to pretend to be frigid

Me: o_0
my friend who migrated from PRC said PRC chinese are quite sexually liberal cos of the cultural rev
are most of the korean girls she knows those who go overseas?

Someone: not sure if most of the korean girls she knows go overseas
yeah, i've heard that about prc chinese too
i'm telling you, i think it's asian-americans and asian-canadians who might be more frigid
b/c asian culture in north america is more traditional
it's like it froze after they immigrated
while the culture of their original homelands developed and liberalized
same problem for singapore b/c of chinese immigrants
asian values propaganda too
chinese immigrants as in your ancestors, not new prc immigrants today

...

it's a generational thing probably. she was talking about how korea changed really quickly

she [early 20s] now


Someone else: Another lawyer told me criteria for bf is minimal 7k
Luckily I don't earn so much man otherwise damn jialat

Ed: This is why female lawyers don't get married


Someone: hahahahahahaha
like ur friend's lawyer friend who says bf must earn at least $7k a month,
my criterion is "must have more [sexual] experience than me"

Me: that might be harder than 7k a month...

...

moral of the story: if you are fussy and have no luck, blame yourself