For the avoidance of doubt, A is American
To be clear, A is just one idiot, but I've encountered many of his ilk. A brings it to a new level, though
B: People are being encouraged to rat on their neighbour and are hearing veiled threats from the 2nd in charge at WHO that infected family members will be removed from homes ...FFS 😳..if that doesn’t raise red flags nothing will 🚩
Me: And if your neighbour infects 1,000 people?
C: exactly! There will come a time when it becomes necessary to use force to remove contagious people who refuse to comply with mitigation protocols.
B: you’re sounding very much like a tyrant
I think you’ve never understood why people like Orwell wrote his books..
Me: Orwell wrote about authoritarian states using their powers to oppress people with the pretext of imagined threats
Not democracies protecting people from real ones
B: what makes you think Bill Gates is a democratically elected leader?
Me: When did I say he was one?
What policies has he enacted?
B: my point was that Orwell wrote about totalitarian regimes and you’re assuming his warning only pertains to people concerned about governmental totalitarian regimes. There are other types of regimes and other power structures that exert considerable influence over people’s lives that we should be concerned about. The tech giants being a case in point. They are unelected power brokers who are making a great many decisions that include the limiting of some people’s freedom.
Gates has enacted a great many policies that have influenced the world scene profoundly. He has plans for more as well.
Me: you can choose not to use Google, Facebook etc. It's harder to choose your government.
Governments can kill you. Big tech can make your life difficult, at most.
I am not a libertarian who thinks companies should be able to do anything. But I can see that companies are limited in their power
You're being vague in your gates conspiracy theories again. If you allude to some sinister conspiracy theory don't get upset when others think you're talking about some other conspiracy theory
B: Let me clear if I haven’t been already:
I think a man who is a self-elected leader, who has bought his way into power and prominence and is now advocating for a technocratic innovation that will tie people’s freedoms to their vaccination status on a world wide level, is treading on very dangerous ground.
Legitimate concerns for any citizen of the world imo.
I think anyone underestimating the danger posed by autocratic technocrats is sadly naive. These technocrats have the power to carve public opinion into the shape they want by their promotion and omission of certain voices and points of view. For you to believe that only governments can pose a risk to the freedoms people have is staggeringly blind.
Me: what technocratic innovation are you referring to? Did he call himself a leader?
Are you calling big tech technocrats? Technocrats are government officials
I never said big tech didn't pose a risk to freedoms. I said governments posed real risks and big tech less
A: nobody can infect 1,000 people. That’s a false assumption to begin with. You’re argument (if that’s what you call that) is based on a false assumption.
Me: 1,000 is just a number thrown out for the sake of argument. It's not an assumption. The term is hypothetical
Presumably you agree that if someone can infect 1,000 people, that person should be quarantined
But if someone can infect 200 people, should he be quarantined?
A: nobody can infect 1,000 people ever. You can’t use something completely unrealistic like that and then expect a realistic reply. Make your argument realistic and then I’ll entertain the idea of a reply.
Me: I guess you've never done philosophy before. Thought experiments are standard in philosophy
But I'll humour you
As I mentioned before
"if someone can infect 200 people, should he be quarantined?"
A: philosophy? This is not a philosophical debate it’s a real one with a real disease. Quarantine should be voluntary period. If you think government forcefully isolating people is ok then you’ve just exposed yourself as a communist. You’re either for government force against the citizen or you’re against it, there is no “but” in there.
alright laughing at my comment just makes you a giant douche bag. You’re not worth my time at this point. So you’re a douche bag and a commie. Even more not worth my time.
You’re basically siding with communist China that forced people into quarantine and locked them in their homes. That makes you a gigantic piece of shit as well.
Me: I see you equate philosophical to useless
Not realising that the tradeoff between different rights is an integral part of political philosophy
And I see you use the term "communist" to mean "bad person"
Ah well
Ironically, I'm pretty sure you think the government is justified in forcefully preventing a woman from getting an abortion...
A: uhmmm you don’t “see” anything. I didn’t equate anything. You said that not me.
And yes if you’re a communist you are by default a bad person. Anyone who believes government has a right to force people to do anything and take away their freedom is a bad person by default. That’s common sense. So you’re not all that bright either on top of everything else.
Me: This is why the US is going to be the worst hit country by the coronavirus
*GIF: freedom intensifies*
A: and it’s also exactly why we’ll always be a country with more freedoms.
Posting a gif like that because I’m against government using force against its citizens just exposes you as nothing more than a clown. You think you have a high intellectual capacity and are witty when in fact you’re quite the opposite, and you just proved it.
Me: Too bad.
Your country is illegitimate because taxation is theft and the government has a right to force people to do things. Paying taxes for one.
What's worse - most of your countrymen believe the government has this right. So most of your countrymen are bad people.
58% of Americans have a favourable view of the IRS, which forces people to pay their taxes.
Only 33% of Americans have an unfavourable view of the IRS.
58%-67% of Americans are bad people.
Majorities Express Favorable Opinions of Several Federal Agencies, Including the FBI | Pew Research Center
A: so now you’re resorting to insulting the people of my country? That’s just pathetic.
Me: "Anyone who believes government has a right to force people to do anything and take away their freedom is a bad personal by default. That’s common sense."
You said it, not me!
A: [To someone else:] people can just voluntarily stay on their homes if they are scared nobody is going to force them to leave. No force is required to deal with this. A study done by the journal Science, funded by the National Institute of Health found that 6 out of 7 people either show no symptoms and have only very mild symptoms. The mortality rate is much much lower than people are being told and the media is reporting. So the collateral wouldn’t be as high as you think. Millions die every year from many diseases. 60,000 died from H1N1 and government did not do any of this. The media is also to blame for this. It could all be done voluntarily and should be done voluntarily.
Government screwed this up from the very beginning. I’ve had to explain this so many times that I actually just saved in my note pad so that I can just copy and paste it when needed. The very same government that is overreaching is the same government that screwed it all up from the beginning.
South Korea has the lowest numbers of infected and deaths out of any country. They had their numbers drop steeply in a matter of 6 weeks and in fact have the lowest number of infected and deaths. They also didn’t have to close a single business. How is this possible? Because the got the help of the private sector to create and pump out thousands of test kits a day. They aggressively tested EVERYONE, and then quarantined those that tested positive. South Korea never had to shut down a single business or restaurant. A study done by the journal science and funded by the National Institute for Health concludes that 6 out of 7 people have the virus and are either asymptotic (show no symptoms) or only have very mild ones. These people spread the virus exponentially. South Korea weeded them out as well by testing everyone.
The first case of covid-19 was found in Washington state in January 20th the exact same day that South Korea found theirs. A private Institute was testing using their own test kits and found this person. They began testing others and found more so they could quarantine themselves. The CDC and FDA ordered them to stop. They refused and continued testing. The CDC then threatened them so they had to stop. Other companies also came out with their own test kits. The CDC ordered them all destroyed. Then the CDC came out with their test kits (which took forever because they are incapable of mass production unlike the private sector) and they all failed.
If the CDC hadn’t stopped the private sector from making test kits and continue testing they could have kept it all contained in one area, quarantining everyone that tested positive, and the level that it has now reached in the US would have never happened because we would have reacted soon enough to prevent it.
The CDC and the FDA are solely responsible for the mass infection we are experiencing in the US because they prevented the private sector from getting a jump on things early enough to stop it from spreading, like South Korea did, we are now at epic levels in the US.
When this is all over there need to be hearings about the way the CDC and FDA completely screwed this entire thing up from the very beginning when it was needed the most and allowed it to become what it is right now. The CDC and the FDA have both failed miserably. The public deserves to know and those failures need to be pointed out so they don’t screw up something this badly again in the future costing thousands of lives.
[To me:] calling them bad people is your opinion. Keep it to yourself jack ass. We’re also the most heavily armed country in the world. Making up 40% of the entire worlds gun ownership. So if we need to we can actually fight against our government if it gets to that point. Can you smart ass? Oh wait you can’t. You’re government basically took that right away. The only thing you can do is use colorful language. Huh...
Me: "People in South Korea who don't stay home are going to be tracked.
Responding to a new surge in coronavirus cases, South Korean officials said Saturday that electronic wristbands will be strapped on citizens who disobey self-quarantine rules."
South Koreans breaking quarantine rules to be strapped with electronic tracking wristbands | Fox News
A: If your reaction to my explanation of how government agencies screwed up the handling of covid-19 from the beginning was to laugh at it, then not only have you exposed yourself as a gigantic piece of shit, but you’ve also exposed yourself as a person of very low intelligence as well.
Gabriel was just as bad [as another person who made snide remarks] if not much much worse. I guess since he can hide behind a computer screen he’ll be as obnoxious as possible. No way he would do this shit to my face in person.
B: yeah I know what you mean. Today he’s called me a hypocrite who indulges in rants and tirades. That’s all very well on a public page but this is my own timeline. I wonder if he’d say that to me if he was in my home? I’ve known forever that he thinks like a leftist in some ways but today he’s hit a new low. It’s prob lockdown having this effect on him. Too much stewing in his own juice 🤣
A: yeah most people like him would never have the balls to actually say this to anyone’s face. They hide behind a computer screen like a complete fucking coward and do it.
Who in their right mind actually has to ask if communists are bad people? Communism is responsible for over 100 million deaths in the last century and strips people of their freedoms and private property. I personally think he is a sick asshole who thinks way too highly of himself.
B: yeah he totally gave himself away tonight. His talking down to you about philosophy was laughable 🤣...especially in light of his being a communist apologist.
A: oh the whole “I’m a philosopher” bit was a joke. Again he thinks way too highly of himself. Not to toot my own horn (but I’m going to in this case because it’s justified) but my IQ puts me in the top 6% of the worlds intelligence. So he can go eat a dick. When his IQ is higher than mine than I might actually consider anything he has to say and take it seriously. Everyone is a philosopher.
B: yeah, everyone is a philosopher...true! And for sure you’re intelligent. But character can’t be bottled. That’s what I think. Nothing else matters as much as character. Not even intelligence because plenty of nefarious people have been outstandingly intelligent.
A: [To someone else:] no government enforcement would be necessary for the testing. People were and still are scared shitless. Plenty of people want to get tested but they are making it ridiculously hard to even get tested for it. You basically have to walk in on deaths door. Unless you are massively sick they will absolutely not test you. Which is absolutely ridiculous because if the study I mentioned where they concluded that 6 out of 7 people have it and are either asymptotic and only show mild symptoms. Those are people you want to test. So yeah getting people to get tested would not be hard at all. People here would happily volunteer to get tested and tested often to be honest because they are all scared of getting infected.
As far as China goes their market economy is pure capitalism, and of course stealing everyone’s intellectual property, and then turning around and selling cheap knock offs. But yeah they are absolutely purely capitalist economy not necessarily free market however because a lot of their companies are very heavily government subsidized which is why it makes it so hard to compete with them and their companies there.
How aren’t communists bad people? Simply reading through a standard history book will tell communists are horrible people. Marxist communism is harmful because it rejects private property and ownership. That in itself completely contradicts freedom. Man is born to be free. Marxism does not allow that. It absolutely requires a dictatorship to work. Again by default it’s evil. That’s we can attribute 100 million deaths to it.
The Iraq war is comparing apples to oranges. The Iraq war isn’t an economic or socio economic theory put into practice. Was it a huge mistake? Of course it was. But again that’s what government does. Governments and communism has killed more people then any free market capitalist system ever could a million times over...
Government systems like The VA, a specific health care and hospitals that are government run for military veterans is absolutely horrible. The horror stories you read it about would blow your mind. Veterans dying because of long wait times. The hospitals are filthy and the treatment is horrible. That’s as good as it gets just for the tens of thousands of veterans. Imagine how horrible it would be if government tried to run and provide health care for 320 million people?! It would be a complete and total disaster.
Me: And yet us healthcare is expensive and yet doesn't perform well
Oh well, the price of "Freedom"
A: it’s not expensive at all. I have the best health care you can get and I pay $40 a month for it.
My step father used to be a head of engineering for the military he is now retired but still has top level security clearance. He helped design the SR-71, worked in the Star Wars project, when someone tried to shoot down Bill Clinton’s chopper with a shoulder mounted rocket launcher he designed the special flares that where deployed that saved Clinton’s life. He also worked on upgrades for the Saturn V rocket, designed the Nuclear Tomahawk missiles and so many other projects it’s not even funny. Half of them he can’t even tell me about.
He looked at my health care and told me I have better health care then he did while being an engineer, and all I pay for it is $40 a month. I get covered for everything.
Every comment you make is so wildly misinformed, it’s mind boggling to me.
The reason health care is expensive if you don’t get it through your job is government laws. Government made it illegal to be able to purchase health from any other company in any other state in the country. You’re limited by the 5-7 companies in your state. They have neutered competition which would drive the prices down. Once again the government that you praise has fucked the citizens again with their laws and the unintended consequences of those laws.
If you have a decent job that isn’t pumping gas though you’re most likely to have cheap health insurance. Our medical by the way is number one in the world. It’s our health insurance that some people are unable to get because, we’ll again, government won’t just let the free market work likes it’s supposed to.
so you’re just literally going to every single one of my comments and making sure you laugh at them just to be a douche bag keyboard warrior. You wouldn’t dare laugh in my face if we where having a debate in person, you’re too much of a pussy little coward, so you do it sitting behind a computer screen. Probably in mommy and daddies basement.
Me: Tons of organisations have done studies on US healthcare and found that it sucks. For example the OECD (
The US Healthcare system from an international stance - OECD), Harvard University and the London School of Economics (
U.S. pays more for health care with worse population health outcomes – Harvard Gazette) and Johns Hopkins (
U.S. Health Care Spending Highest Among Developed Countries - 2018 - News Releases - News - Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health)
But I'm sure all of them are ignorant and you, a random person on Facebook, are the one who's right
If inter-state restrictions for healthcare were really what made healthcare expensive, you'd expect that at least one state would have affordable healthcare, and that insurance companies from states with cheap healthcare would set up subsidiaries to penetrate the market in other states and steal some of that fat profit.
To say nothing of how the US Health Insurance Industry's profit margins are consistently in the low single digits, so these profits you imagine are illusory (
National Association of Insurance Commissioners: U.S. Health Insurance Industry | 2018 Annual Results)
Strangely, though you claim your healthcare is great, New Jersey health care affordability is ranked 35 and health insurance enrollment is ranked 26 (
Best States for Access to Health Care | US News Best States). So clearly it's not due to your state offering fantastic plans that are not available out of state.
Also I'm sure that inter-state healthcare restrictions have nothing to do with state rights. Though I've a hunch that if the restrictions were lifted, you'd be complaining about state rights being infringed
I see that for someone who accuses me of being a keyboard warrior you're incredibly hypocritical - it's fine for you to insult me but when I laugh off your puerile jibes I'm the one who's in the wrong
Presumably you are not a "pussy" and would happily insult me to my face
For someone who claims to welcome debate, you're incredibly thin skinned. Not to mention the joke of calling it a "debate" when you ignore points that you don't like or are unable to address
A: lol!!! Is that why when every world leader gets so much as a sniffle they come here for their medical care? Lol!!! Man you are such a dumb ass. Go search google some more for articles that back up your own biases. What you did is called “confirmation bias”. Google that phrase if you don’t know what it means as I have a feeling you probably don’t.
you keep laughing at my comments yet I continue to thrash you about like an intellectual chew toy making you look silly every time to everyone reading through the comments. Let me know when you’re finally ready to yield and admit that you’re just intellectually inferior in every way compared to me.
oh and I’m also far better looking to boot.
Me: For all my merits, I don't consider looks to be among them
Other points of error I noticed:
1) "South Korea never had to shut down a single business or restaurant."
Well, actually...
"company offices that are at risk to be closed and public venues and events be canceled. All schools that should have started a new semester on March 2 are now postponed until March 22. "
South Korea’s drastic measures against the coronavirus offers a glimpse of what the US may need to do - ABC News
"He... said he would shut down several thousand welfare centers."
South Korea Adopts Tough Measures To Stop The Coronavirus As Cases Break Out In Church And Hospital
2) "People here would happily volunteer to get tested and tested often to be honest because they are all scared of getting infected."
Coronavirus and carers: ‘I am so scared right now’
"I am at the stage I don’t want to know"
[Archived] Bogleheads community discussion - Coronavirus - Page 32 - Bogleheads.org
"Personally I don't want to be tested because I don't want to take 2 unpaid weeks off of work."
Dani Richard's answer to If it costs $3,000 to get tested for the corona virus, how many Americans are going to vote for universal healthcare? - Quora
"If I have symptoms of the corona then, I don’t want to get tested"
3) "Government systems like The VA, a specific health care and hospitals that are government run for military veterans is absolutely horrible"
"The VA health care system performs similar to or better than non-VA systems on most measures of inpatient and outpatient care quality"
VA Health System Generally Delivers Higher-Quality Care Than Other Health Providers | RAND
A: that’s from March 4th. They began everything on January 20th. There was a peak in infected and then a very very sharp drop within 6 weeks. All this article does is talk about how they are still fighting it. Of course they are still fighting it. Duh, but they have under better control then every other country in the world because of the measures I already explain in a very long previous comment. You’re article doesn’t disprove anything I explained. You’re grasping at straws now and scraping the bottom of the barrel because you are so desperate to prove me wrong for some reason. It’s pathetic at this point. Why are you so desperate to prove me wrong about my valid and well researched explanation of how South Korea handled covid-19 from the beginning? It serves no purpose. At this point it’s just an ego battle for you that you’re desperate to try and “win”. That’s truly sad and pathetic. Seriously man, just look at yourself. You think people have any respect for you after reading through your comments and seeing how you act? No they don’t, it at all. You really are making yourself look pathetic and stupid. I can actually smell the desperation through my phone. 🙄🤦🏻♂️
Me: The lady doth protest too much, methinks
A: I protest to much? You’re kidding right? That is so rich in irony That’s literally what you’ve been doing the entire time with every comment I make. You should go look in the mirror. You’re ego is completely out of control. You’re unwilling to accept facts because your ego is so large and you think so highly of yourself that you think there isn’t anything you could possibly be wrong about. It really is just pathetic to watch at this point. And to laugh at every single one of my comments, you make sure you do that, you’re so childish on top of everything else as well. It’s truly just pathetic to watch. You don’t see it? It’s like you have narcissistic personality disorder, I’m not even joking, or maybe (but highly unlikely) you’re a sociopath. They are also extremely narcissistic. Either way man you really need to check yourself.
actually you may just be a sociopath. You do seem to be fond of communism which involves controlling other people’s lives, property etc. So there may actually be some truth to that.
keep pathetically laughing at everything I say, I’m the one that gets the last laugh anyways. Enjoy it while you can. It truly does expose you as an egomaniac to everyone reading this thread. It amazes me that you continue to do so. It’s as if you have zero self awareness.
