"Today you can go to a gas station and find the cash register open and the toilets locked. They must think toilet paper is worth more than money." - Joey Bishop
***
A
comment left by jon 2 months ago (he didn't leave an email, so I hope he's still reading):
"by the way, do you feel it's a pity you didn't get to further your studies overseas? how do you feel at NUS? IMO, your potential isn't really being fully developed at FASS, and an NUS degree doesn't accurately reflect your intelligence. i'm from the hua chong lineage, and to be honest i'm worried i might not be able to study overseas due to financial inability."
NUS is bad, but it's not that bad. Before I came in, I expected it to be a lot worse, but so far it's been alright. Apparently we have the International Review Panel which came in in the mid-late 90s to thank for this, since they shook things up and fired people. Furthermore, the bad thing about NUS is not the undergraduate education but the administration (its policies, attitude and habit of NTUC-ing students). As for developing potential, even fallen representatives of esteemed lineages do not find NUS a cakewalk, though of course working students to death does not a great University make (for some intellectual broadening, you could always join USP).
I always say that local students are very bitter, since they although they generally work more their degrees tend to be worth less. Furthermore they get less freedom (both in the country, in school and academically), shitty weather, less sex, less and more expensive booze, less (or no) drugs and less travel.
That said, in part university life is what you make of it. As SL Clemens observed, "I never let schooling interfere with my education." Especially with the Internet the barriers to lifelong knowledge acquisition aren't really that high.
As for financing overseas education, selling your soul or having your parents pay for you are not the only way. Many universities offer varying amounts of financial aid, you can choose a cheaper public college or you can always take up a student loan that will leave you in debt for a decade.
Other comments (all from current or ex-NUS students):
A: im better off in NUS. im glad im in NUS
when i was in yr 1 i was depressed, but now i can honestly say im happy
in yr 1 i felt that i should have studied harder for my A's. Perhaps i would have gone to a good uni overseas
but that's pure fantasy. there's no way i could have done that unless i got a scholarship
but i DON"T want a scholarship.
it restricts my freedom
if i had a scholarship would i have taken the courses i have taken? probably not
would i have the freedom to decide what i want to do in the future? probably not
the education in NUS is really really cheap
and in some depts like Math, the education is fantastic
even in econs, which is not world class, it's still pretty decent. provided u push yourself, u can learn a damn lot
come on lah. if i could afford an overseas education i prob would get into a decent us college
maybe not the ivy league
but a good public uni like michigan is definitely possible
u think michigan has good lecturers meh?
i heard in those top publics
a lot of the courses i taught by TAs
in NUS only the tutorials i taught by TAs
let's not talk about harvard lah
each year almost all top students apply to harvard. something like one or two get in
so that's not realistic
in US there'll also be PRC lecturers
there will also be those lecturers with thick jewish accents
arabic accents
irish
scottish
whatever accent
i mean let's be realistic. let's not have the kind of thought experiment where "what if i went to harvard, my family can afford the school fees so i don't need a scholarship etc etc"
that kind of circumstance applies only to like one or two people in singapore
what does "good" mean
good is subjective
it's what's "good " for you
NUS is the BEST for ME
depends lah.
like now i want to talk to people about advanced techniques used in econs
i can't find many people that can help me
but maybe it's the same elsewhere . i won't know
but there a lot of smart people in NUS. u just have to pick the right course and mix with the right people
i know there are ex IMO people in math
econs also got smart people. but very few are deep into research. so u get pple who are really good at the work done i nthe class but if u want to say discuss dynamic programming, no one in the cohort would know
i have a friend who studied overseas under scholarship but we never discuss intellectual topics. and he admits that he's not very intellectual
so i dunno. depends
Im not impressed with the people who come from other countries to singapore on exchange
i think the perception that foreign unis are so much better is partly because a lot of the top singaporeans go overseas
so we imagine universities where everyone there is a genius
but it turns out that singaporeans tend to do very well overseas
that means that the standard isn't that far off
anyway u also have to seriously ask yourself, do you really need THAT much intellectual firepower around you
the people u interact with must be around your level, not at a level 100 xs higher than yours or else you won't follow
anyway i got a good "comment" from a discussion board about a related issue (re: universities)
For me, probably going to a *pedagogical* (i.e. emphasis on *teaching*) school, like Georgia Tech or Texas A&M, would have been best, where they assume you are dumb and coach you through it. I went to the opposite: a 'research' school, where they assumed you were smart, and pretty much expected you to know stuff and learn it on your own. For example, I was taught frosh calculus (which I really need) by a brilliant Chineese grad student.....who did not really speak English. Result? Disaster (for me). Everyone else (brilliant) just read the book and got 'A's.
If reincarnation is inevitable, based on my undergraduate behaviour,**** learning, and GPA, I will be reincarnated as a pre-life form of animo acids. I learned about zip of what I do and know now. It was a great school, but *the wrong place for me.* In contrast, my grad school experience, at (not-famous) The George Washington University, was heaven. That *was* the right program for me.
So the best school in the world? Map your 'expected career' vector, look carefully and reasonably and rationally at your 'capabilities vector' paying particular attention to the 'I am ignorant of this' vector and the 'I learn best this way' vector and that should narrow the field.
My general advice is, don't fall in love with fancy brand-name schools.
Fancy brand name school has a half-life like an isotope. Think carefully about what you want to learn, and then pick the place that offers the best scholarship that meets that criteria. Bon chance.
Oh, one last thing. I re-took calc, stats, and matrix algebra at the Northern Virginia Community College years after undergrad. On *my personal utility curve* that is the 'Best School in the World.' Seriously.
B: and why do they not think it is being maximised? i think NUS gives us ALOT of opportunities, being the rich and well reconised uni that it is
it has so many exchanges to alot of good uni's and good programs but ur not going to be sppon fed them. u gotta do ur own legwork
i like NUS.
in another uni anywhere else i wld be a small fish in a big pond and not get alot of the oppotunities i have here. i think its upto people to take advantage of em
i think in any university it depends on your grp of frens. even in really good american colleges ( i use these coz i am most familiar with their cultures etc)
it depends if ur hanging around with a bunch of kids who are interested in...
an intellectual discussion?
thats all i can think of pertaining to intellectual climate.
open profs. very hard in a big college
smaller colleges might be easier
so i guess it depends what the kid wants.
weird courses, i think NUS caters to some pretty whack courses i wouldn't have thought of..
and this is sporean too. when school's out all everyone can talk about is sch. in every other window eone is talking abt NUS
NUS the bitch is the Admin. not the profs or the sch
from what i know of the PS dept ad its profs' they're all really supportive n stuff
and the USP profs are cool
not familiar with anyone else.
i think NUS is a good investment for the amt we pay :)
hahaha
C (Law Student): i think NUS is quite challenging :D
i dunno why ppl complain abt NUS leh
coz i dont think its as bad as what ppl make it out to be
then again, my faculty is rather closed to the world
so whatever i know of NUS is errrr quite skewed
D: actually i sort of agree with the front part..or rather the part of not being fully developed at fass
i kinda think its a waste of time in nus
but then again..for 6k..as compared to the cost of studying overseas...
in that sense its more worth it
cos by going overseas n spending a hell lot of money
doesnt guarantee i will earn a lot in the future anyway
E: i think your potential for human observation and arguing with idiots has been improved tremendously by being in NUS hahaha
and it doesn't matter where you come from, i rub shoulders with rafflesians and chinese high guys all the time wat. no one will judge you any less
oh but i feel i've become stupider since starting uni.
somehow i feel my creative juices have dried up
my mind is settling into a rut
[About the intellectual climate in NUS] mostly, "what intellectual climate?"
most of us in NUS are just out to get a degree then job
F: its a fallacy to say that NUS isnt good enough
your education is what you make of it
its wrong to put the blame on someone else
i mean we get research projects etc
i enjoyed my time at nus more becuz of usp
haha
G: fuck NUS, it only concerns itself with prestige.
Look good in papers and in the media, in the meantime all the FASS students getting lameass lecturers
no, [NUS education hasn't shortchanged me] because in Singapore, if u wanna do Arts and social sciences (ASS) NUS is the only place to do it (can take your chances with SMU).
as lame as it is, there is no where else i can go
NUS is a factory to produce more of the minions that make up Big Brother- Engineers, Lawyers and Economists
Engineers make things work
Economists manage the money when it works
Lawyers make sure it works and if it doesnt, they legislate or litigate
FUCK THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!
sorry im just ranting
H: "Then you're not really from the Hwa Chong (HWA, my dear, not hua--you think what, flowers ah.) lineage, if you can't even get a overseas scholarship, and hence you fully deserve to be stuck in Singapore where your 'talents' will be 'underdeveloped' and remain 'half-baked'. Or maybe you can 'further your studies' in Ethiopia or Cambodia instead. Good luck."
Stupid snob.
Not really [it hasn't shortchanged me].
I think it depends on what you're after.
If it's a pedigree certificate/degree then NUS probably isn't the place loh.
Go to Oxford or Cambridge or LSE lah.
If you're hoping for that kinda 'education' in NUS, then NUS is shortchanging you lah. Because NUS is obviously NOT at the Ox/Camb/LSE kinda standards.
And it's shortchanging us by advertising itself constantly as having those standards.
And you cannot deny that there are a lot of TomsDicks&Harrys in FASS.
I: singaporeans tend to think overseas uni are better...
i think at undergraduate lvl, the university doesnt really matter too much, just give u the facilities u need to study whatever u want...
if u dun make use of it.. its ur problem..
ask him go fight the prcs lah...in science =p
J: its not easy at all to score well in NUS
well.. it can be done if the guy works very hard and do past year paper
or it can be done with less effort if the guy is really smart
so if the guy think he is that good...
that the hwa chong lineage is really that special
then my suggestion:
go all out and enjoy the CCA/hall life
make some achievements there
and do well in studies also
then i think that is just as great a challenge as studying well in overseas u
intellectual climate........
maybe... probably
i would think its true to a certain extent [that the intellectual climate is lacking]
guess he can always apply for NOC if he is really that keen...
or student exchange...
its a poor substitute but better than nothing
anyway... i think FASS is already alot more intellectual than FOE
i mean intellect in the general sense...
critical thinking about current affairs and policys etc
K: no
an education is good anywhere
all that matters is your attitude to learning
it doesn't mean you'll learn less in sgp
afterall uni edu is a lot about own iniative
L: errr... hahaha academic's not everything..once u start work..it's a totally different challenge n basically no one really cares about how well u do in uni
i dun think we fare too badly [on an international level] either ..most singaporeans do well oversesas
so i think nus isn't that bad
M: hm, i think education is what you make of it
if you bother to take the time to read, then with the internet it is not difficult to find the resources you want to learn about
the onyl difference between NUS and a university overseas is the people - and it's hard to say that i like people anyway so w
[About NUS people] how should i say this?
i don't like stupidity hahahah
N: dear hua chong descendent
no matter which university you go, stupid people will always be stupid. unfortunately, singaporean employers tend to falsely believe that overseas qualifications bear more merit than local degrees. and there are always bank loans. we live in this world to pay our debts anyway.
O: i dont know for fass, but in science there be 2 types
the indifferents and those who want research
its a good easy straight path for the indifferents, but for those looking into research with intrinsic value, well i must say nus isnt really very supportive
most likely i think it depends on what your hwachongky friend wants
