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Meesa gonna kill you!

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Saturday, June 22, 2013

On paying for software vs blocking ads on websites/in software

Me: I gifted a US$1.49 game to the guy who never pays for anything he can pirate
459 ratings, 5 stars
king of dragon pass
gotta e good
my note was "this may just possibly be the first digitally available game that you own that has had money paid for it"

Someone: ask your... friend
if he thinks software developers are subhuman and do not deserve to be paid for their work

Me: I think it's similar to your "my bandwidth, my rules" rule for blocking ads

Someone: ha
ads are not quite the same as stuff being made and sold directly by the same person

Me: eh
you think there's a direct link between the developer and the purchase meh
developer is paid by game company
game company is paid by publisher
publisher is paid by store/online platform
website is paid by ad company
ad company is paid by advertisers depending on views/clicks
so the link is shorter for ads even

Someone: when it comes to apps
developers paid directly by google
and do you honestly think writing an app for users is the same as advertising
i'm all of blocking ads in apps
there's a difference between providing a service
and brainwashing

Me: how are ads brainwashing
ads are an alternative way of supporting a product/service
it's the same as a list price. just a different model

Someone: using an app without paying for it and blocking ads is different

Me: when you write an app for users you either sell it and get $1 upfront from user X
or you make it adware and get $0.01 a month (assumption) from user X

Someone: yes,
and i think adware is scum

Me: then dont use it

Someone: i don't
but we aren't talking about this
why do yuo keep changing
i am saying
your friend who doesn't pay for his ads

Me: well I was talking about downloading games

Someone: does he think the people who writes them don't need to be paid for their work

Me: it's all the same
ars technica wrote something on this
I'm sure you know

Someone: ads
is not the same
as writing a program
good god
if yuo honestly think it's the same
then let's just agree to disagree
i'm not trying to sell you someone else's product when i write an application
i don't try to change your perception of anything
when i offer you my service as an app developer

Me: no they're not the same
ads <- way to get paid writing an app <- service ads are to the price of an app as writing an app is to maintaining a website err. like that when I talk to you about this issue I'm also trying to change your perception of the issue Someone: yes, but it's a two way discussion

Me: you seem to view advertising as coercive

Someone: advertising is coercive

Me: no it's persuasive
there's a difference

Someone: a very fine one
and if you let htem have their way
it would be coercive
so don't
compare my living
with advertising

Me: anyway if you don't like apps with ads, don't use them
if you don't like websites with ads, don't visit them

Someone: we aren't talking about whether i like apps
or use htem
if they're supported by ads
for the last time
we are talking about your friend
paying app developers
for their apps

Me: and I am using the same principle in a different context

that's like saying it's not ok for A to kill B with a chainsaw
but it's ok for C to kill D with an axe

Someone: but we aren't discussing that context

i am saying
that writing an app and putting it on sale
is not the same as writing an article on the net and showing it with ads
do you hoenstly not see the difference

Me: nope

Someone: the second one involves the premise that your content is freely accessible
it's like giving out newspapers
the app itself is not accessible without paying for it unless you pirate
or if it's ad supported
it's a all or nothing thing
if you want the app you buy it
and at no point in this process do i say, hey, i think you need to buy these products from some 3rd party
it's just, do you want this app?
yes? give me some money
and you can use it
there are apps that are ad supported
by all means block those ads

Me: ad-supported websites are like places which require an admission fee to enter
but there's no ticket control, just a box for you to deposit your admission fee

Someone: no, yuo don't need to deposit any admission fee...
when you enter
someone gives you a flyer that says
buy this shit
at no point in this do you give anyone any money
also they take your photograph and fingerprints
enough for lousy analogy yet?

Me: well in that case it's wrong to kill someone with a chainsaw because it's motorised
but an axe is okay because it's human powered

Someone: your latter analogy i completely do not understand whatsoever
how is killing people got anything to with this

Me: if you don't want to get the flyer or be photographed or get fingerprinted, don't go in
dont break in

Someone: it's not breaking in
no one loses anything
digital media
is not the same as traditional media

Me: if you break in without breaking locks, doors etc no one loses anything either

it's an opportunity cost in both senses
killing people <-> paying people for their work
axe <-> paying for apps
chainsaw <-> ads

Someone: there are different penalties for theft and murder...
haiya ok i want to play game
but you should think about this a bit more

Me: yes it's different for new media
so it's ok to pirate apps also
I have thought about this
that's why months (years?) after you told me you block ads I'm talking about it

Someone: no it's not, the fundamental difference is
i don't try to sell you
someone else's product
and i don't give you my app for free
blocking ads is not because
i'm opposed to giving websites my money

Me: yes so as I've said if you philosophically disagree with the funding model just dont use the product
instead of using the product without paying
while condemning those who use products without paying in other instances

Someone: i honestly can't believe you think advertising and revenue sharing from appstore are the same
i think you are far mroe intelligent than that
and you are being contrary for hte sake of being contrary

Me: the issue is not whether they are the same
the issue is whether pirating paid apps is the same as blocking ads on ad-supported websites
it may be faster to kill someone with a chainsaw than an axe
but in both cases the person ends up dead

Someone: and i'ts not
yeah okay look
we clearly fundamentally disagre about this

Me: yes
just go play your game
just accept that intelligent people can disagree over issues without being contrary for the sake of being contrary

Someone: i do

Me: well you just claimed that I was being contrary for the sake of being contrary
I suspect people think I;m trolling when I say I support incest

Someone: but you haven't rebutted my point about selling someone else's product either

it's not the same, is it?
we're talking about different things
you're talking about how the website is being killed
i'm talking about differnet kinds of revenue streams
but somehow
you have conflated both topics
i'm only interested in the appstore

Me: so dont use ad supported websites/apps

Someone: yesw
yes i agree w
don't use them w

Me: so why do you have an ad blocker?

Someone: because i can't get away from ads
can i?
it's not as easy as don't use them
do you see the difference?
i try my best
not to use ad supported software
and websites
and i pay for those that i do
btu i can't
from seeing ads
even then
my use of an adblocker
is not because i'm opposed to giving websites my money

Me: so in that case it's more of a practical issue than a philosophical one
like a vegetarian will eat meat if the alternative is death

Someone: and what about the sites that have no alternatives?
facebook doesn't let me pay to get rid of ads
that's pretty lousy, isn't it?

Me: ok. so the we have found the root of the disagreement
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