HWMNBN: have you read the gospels of judas?

Me: no
to obusy

HWMNBN: There is one exception to the invulnerability of Christianity to historical refutation, and that is the resurrection of Jesus. If it could be shown through irrefutable historical and textual evidence that Jesus' followers stole his body from the cave and cooked up the story of his resurrection, then the spiritual project of Christianity would indeed suffer a mortal blow.

However, this is highly unlikely, and even if it were possible to prove this, it would still not diminish, for example, the vision of Paul on the road to Damascus nor the heroic martyrdom of Christians for their faith nor generations of Christian saints and scholars who have taught a vision of salvation that sustains and sanctifies one out of every three people on earth.

desperate apologia

Me: yes.
frankly, once they hit "demonic imitation" you know such piffling things as reality and logic won't stop them

HWMNBN: It is important, however, to distinguish the details of Jesus’ life and the belief in Jesus' mission. Facts may alter this or that historical verdict on the role of Judas or the life of Jesus, but no historical facts can deflect or damage the belief in Jesus as the Christ, which remains the central claim and enduring promise of Christianity.

that's as good as saying that believing in a lie works out ofr the best
although i must admit it's not an entirely untrue premise - most of the world's financial system rests on elaborate shared faith as well

Me: faith in something real

HWMNBN: *amused* real. right. work in an investment bank for a fe wyears, and you'll realise what an notional fiction most financial structures are.
but that's neither here nor there

Tonight my faith commands me and excites me to remember the going out of Egypt, the plagues there, the splitting of the Red Sea and the burning mountain where Moses received the Torah written in black fire upon white fire. If it were somehow possible to prove that nobody left Egypt, and that the miracles never happened, and that the law was cooked up by a bunch of priests in the time of David, it would insult my faith, but it would not diminish it, because the message of the Passover is a message of freedom, and freedom remains God's gift to all people. This is true not only because historical events from the Exodus to today proves it. It is true because the spiritual legacy of freedom cannot possibly be false.

Me: basically if you believe a lie it's alright
because you believed it sincerely

HWMNBN: as i said, what else are financial markets?:)
truly, at times like this, when i say i worship mammon, it's as much an expression of faith as a declaration of vocation


Someone: er... paul was a congenital liar who was shunned by most of the original disciples of christ

Me: hehe
pauline christianity

Someone: paulinism

Me: and he suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy

Someone: it's all in the historical records.
almost all the remaining disciples of christ wanted to evangelise to the jews
they didn't really give a fig about paul's quest to bring the word to the heathens in the east
and they most certainly didn't tolerate paul's fanciful theorising

Me: it's post-hoc justification
"pauline christianity survived. therefore it must be right"