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Tuesday, June 22, 2010

Another train wreck (on Chinese history)

"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly. I said I don't know." - Mark Twain

***

B
: The gender bias in my opinion is probably the worst part of a lot of Asian cultures. Hopefully things take a turn for the better in the future.

A: Until about 2 centuries ago, we were better then the west.
Asian cultures is good to woman compare to all the monotheistic rubbish.

C: Better in what sense? Women in bound feet? Widows who were forced to burn along with their husbands' funeral pyres?

But in this globalised age when it is evident that talent for good or evil is not limited to race or culture, perhaps it is better not to think in a dichotomous framework such as East vs West.

A: Ok, outside of China and india, most of Asia was better.
And before 1649, China was one of the best.

Me: What happened in 1649?

A: China falls into the hands of savage barbarians.

Me: I thought the Ming ended in 1644

And under the Ming the Chinese got very prudish

A: Sorry, my bad, wrong time.
Yeah, 1944.
As for Chinese getting prudish under Ming, that's rubbish.

Me: What does 1944 have to do with gender equality?!

I know this won't convince you, but for the benefit of others:

"For much of China's history, the government was generally lax in enforcing laws pertaining to sexual behavior. Not until the 12th century, in the Sung dynasty, did the government begin to develop a consistent policy of exercising control over the sexual life of the people, and official constraints on sexual expression developed into a pervasive cultural conservatism. By the beginning of the Ming dynasty, repressive institutions and policies were firmly in place, and continued to be in force throughout the Ming and Ching dynasties. Thus, for example, writing about and publicly discussing sex were forbidden. Strict censorship and other controls persisted after the establishment of the Republic of China in 1912."

--- Human sexuality: an encyclopedia / Vern L Bullough. Bonnie Bullough

A: China's gender equality was rather good before 1944.

Of course it won't convince me, this Vern L Bullough and Bonnie Bullough fellows are plain talking rubbish.
There was no consistent policy of exercising control over the sexual life of the people during Song, and neither does Ming repressive institutions and policies, only people who don't know Chinese History will buy such nonsense.

D: Traditonal Chinese Gender Equality?

A: Yes, while not as good as today's society, it's better then the rest of the world at that time.

Me: Well, you also think that Western Medicine is rubbish, so I don't think scholarship is sufficient to convince you.

A: Naturally, only reason, research and reality are sufficient to convince me.
Which these two Bullouugh gentleman have none.

Me: Here're their sources:

Chan, W., trans. and comp. A Source Book in Chinese Philosophy. Princeton, N.J.: Princeton Univ. Press, 1963.

Chou, E. The Dragon and the Phoenix. New York: Arbor House, 1971.

Humana, C., and W. Wu. The Chinese Way of Love. Hong Kong: CFW Publications, 1982.

Levy, H.S., and A. Ishihara, trans. The Tao of Sex: The Essence of Medical Prescriptions (Ishimpo). Third Rev. Ed. Lower Lake, Calif.: Integral Publishing, 1989.

Needham, J. Science and Civilisation in China. Vol. 2, Sect. 8-18. Cambridge, U.K.: At the University Press, 1956. Vol. 5, Part V: Sexuality and the Role of Theories of Generation, Cambridge, U.K.: At the University Press, 1983.

Ruan, F.F. Sex in China: Studies in Sexology in Chinese Culture. New York: Plenum Press, 1991.

van Gulik, R.H. Sexual Life in Ancient China: A Preliminary Survey of Chinese Sex and Society From ca. 1500 B.C. till 1644 A.D. Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1961.

Your definition of "reason, research and reality" seem to be "what I think"

A: All these book are just rubbish of what their individual author thinks, and not reason, research and reality.
If you really want to know about ancient China, come speak to me, I am better then all the authors of these books added together.

Me: You must be very learned indeed.

E: What makes you such an expert A?

Me: I will also note that some of the sources include:

- Ruan Fangfu ("a Chinese physician and medical historian. He is editor and author of A Chinese manual of Sex Knowledge (性知识手册, Xingzhishi Shouce, 1985)")
- Wang Wu (who has authored many books on Chinese sexuality)
- Eric Chou (who has also written some books on Chinese sexuality)
- Wing-Tsit Chan (who "was one of the world's leading scholars of Chinese philosophy and religion")

And this is just the Chinese ones (or those of Chinese descent, at any rate)

Since he knows more than all of them combined, A should go into the field of Chinese sexology. He will certainly revolutionise it.

A: These people's views on ancient China have been influenced by Qing and the 1954 movement's idiotic viewpoints, mine hasn't.

Me: Yes, we've all been taken in by the Illuminati

D: If I may--Traditional Chinese Illuminati. (It's Western counterpart is rubbish rubbish.)

A: The west was good until Roma falls to Christinity.
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