The ‘Tolerance of Intolerance’

BBC Radio 4 - Moral Maze, The ‘Tolerance of Intolerance’

"‘A primary school in Sparkhill Birmingham has become the unlikely focus of the most fundamental model issues of this or any other age. Religious freedom and human rights, liberal values clashing with traditional beliefs, parents against the state. All but a handful of the pupils at Anderton Park School are Muslims, mostly of Pakistani origin. They've been having lessons designed to encourage acceptance of LGBT lifestyles. They feature books about cross dressing and gay families. One's called my princess boy.

Many of the parents don't like it. They say the lessons actively promote homosexuality, which is contrary to their religion and their family values. They’ve staged noisy protests and a high court judge is currently deciding whether a temporary ban on demonstrations near the school should become a permanent exclusion zone… How far should the state accommodate the beliefs, teachings and practices current secular thinking dislikes? Are our values so absolute no exception should be allowed? Or should we stretch our moral imaginations to make room for views which were after all, the law of the land a generation ago? In short, how far should we tolerate what some regard as intolerance?’...

‘As a Muslim who has grown up in the West, I know from a faith perspective that there is no one view on anything Islam, and that diversity is the very essence'...

‘I'm quite interested to explore what you do when two marginalized groups and the rights of two marginalized groups come into conflict’...

‘You run a private school... So if one day one of your students turned round and said to you, I'm gay, or I think I'm gay, what would your response be?’

‘Well, if it's a Muslim child, then I would quite simply say to them that as a Muslim, a sexual relationship, we believe in God, God Almighty has made it very, very clear in the Quran that the only sexual relationship he has endorsed is that between a husband and wife. Any other sexual relationship outside of that relationship between a husband and wife is forbidden’

‘So as you know, the Quran also talks about sexual relationships with slaves as well. And that's been endorsed as well. But if we're going to go down the road of what Islamic thought has said on this, you would know, as a teacher in a private Muslim school, that Islamic history is absolutely replete with lifestyles that were about same sex attraction, about older and younger same sex attraction, all kinds of male to male, female to female attraction that have got nothing to do with what you've just said that the Quran endorses.’

‘Well, there are two things. When you talk about homosexuality, you could be talking about feelings and you could be talking about actions. The Quran, God Almighty, does not legislate against feelings. He is talking very specifically when it comes to fornication or adultery, about actions. And in terms of homosexuality, he's very, very clear. He's talking about actions, not feelings, because people can all have all sorts of feelings and if they act on those feelings it could be illegitimate...

There are many things out there, you know, which go against Islamic values, okay, that we are living in a secular liberal environment where a lot of things are going on which we don't agree with. Take the example of alcohol. I don't drink alcohol. I've never touched alcohol. And I have told my children alcohol is forbidden, is haram. God Almighty has forbidden it. But I don't hate people who drink alcohol and I will never tell my children to hate people who drink alcohol.

And homosexual behavior and all other actions which are forbidden in Islam, but which are acceptable within a secular liberal environment fall in exactly the same category. We don't hate the sin. We hate the sin. We hate the sinner…

The government has made it very clear that the teaching needs to be age appropriate. When you are teaching four and five year olds, that you're a boy or girl now but you can become a man or woman. Whatever you choose. That's entirely up to you when you grow up. I'm sorry, you're teaching something very controversial and to us very wrong at a very early age to a very vulnerable group.'…

‘Have we actually reached a point where our secular liberal values are just incompatible with traditional religious belief?’

‘I think we've reached a point where our secular liberal values are incompatible with classical liberalism. I think they're two different things. We might be reaching a point that Isaiah Berlin identified as the incommensurability of values pluralism, which is a kind of fancy way of saying we're in a logjam here.’...

‘Adults have responsibilities to children. I read today a testimony from a Muslim mother at the school who said her four year old daughter quaint [sp?] came home and wanted to be a boy and started dressing in boys clothing. I think that's an obligation of the duty of the school.’...

‘Isn't there a value to the idea of what tolerance actually means, which is about we tolerate people that we don't, might not necessarily like or approve of isn't it, rather than being forced to celebrate everything that we don't approve of?’

‘But is it inching, Melanie, towards the complete abolition of the idea of a hierarchy of values of lifestyle?’

‘I think we've certainly, not just an inch - I think we're hurtling towards this. I'm reminded of the wise words of the former chief rabbi Lord Sacks, who said that certain behavior that was once prohibited first became tolerated and then became compulsory.’


Apparently there is no one view in Islam about whether pork is haram

When liberals talk about tolerance they mean celebration