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Wednesday, April 15, 2015

"al-shabab is being used as "a tool of the west to destroy, colonise and exploit africa""

A: "Violent Extremists" murder about 150 people in Kenya. Now, if only we know the ideology that drives them, we may have a chance...

Mourning Turns to Anger in Kenya After College Massacre | TIME

B: The way forward is for Kenya to go in full force into somalia and finish off the terrorists. Kenyans are capable of it too. The West will try to prevent this as this terror group is also a tool of the west to destroy, colonise and exploit africa.

A: can you cite me your sources that al-shabab is being used as "a tool of the west to destroy, colonise and exploit africa.". I am intrigued.

B: who created Taliban? Who created al Quaida? Who created IS?

As someone who has worked in those parts of the woods I know what western "diplomats" do along with "missionaries" to sow unrest and discontent. Europe is one of the major financiers of shabab and other terrorist organisations in Somalia by readily paying millions as ransom. instead of that the west ought to have gone in and stamped out their own frankinsteins. Now they are too big and the way forward is fraught with danger and the break point will be when a dirty bomb explodes in the west

Me: When they go in they are accused of being imperialists and being there only for oil

B: Even after the attack a major general of US airforce was talking bullshit to calm the Kenyans so that their assets are not destroyed or neutralised.

Ho? izzat so? Europe LOVEs to intervene in Africa. Pray!! Whats International Criminal Court? any idea?

A: I asked about al-Shabab. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

B: do you know why the genocide in Sierra Leone took place? Do you know what bullshit is "Blood diamonds"?

yes i worked in that area and have seen US special Forces train them

A: now THAT is interesting. Has anyone else corroborated this?

B: do u know the quantom of monet given by Europe to them?

you will LOVE this

Paying Ransoms, Europe Bankrolls Qaeda Terror - NYTimes.com

you think there is any difference between the various terror groups other than name? Who trained the taliban? Houris or US forces? Who trained al Quaida? tell me

Never for a moment forget al-shabab is an affiliate of Al-Quaida
who is aiding the IS thats killing Europeans and americans most brutally?

A: I am interested in Al Shabab. So apart from your eyewitness account, there has been no independent corroborating report?

B: Don't get upset when a mirror is shown to you :P
ask the British High Commission Staff. They travelled with me on that mission

A: Can you give me the contact details?
Of the British High Commission staff?

B: well I have to look up my reports. I will
But A is it OK to compartmentalise things when islamic terror is a SINGLE octopus? Why are you not interested in Taliban, Al Quaida and IS?

A: Great, thanks. I hope you understand, its like when Paul wrote in his letter to the Corinthians that 50 people saw the risen Jesus. We do not, in that case, have 51 eyewitnesses (St Paul + 50), but still only one who claims 50 others saw it.

B: yet people take it as "gospel truth" lol

A: I am interested in Taliban Al-Qaeda etc. And it is no secret, even Hillary Clinton came out recently condemning American strategy of fighting a proxy war in Afghanistan by training the forerunners of the Taliban and the Al Qaeda. If they are doing it in Somalia, it shows they haven;t learnt their lesson!

B: I found a link!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just a sentence but enough to show you LOL


"The US and NATO also have a role to play in the emergence of the pirates phenomenon that has turned the Gulf of Aden into “pirate alley.”"

sif you "know" it is OK and the sin is forgiven?

A: But the pirates and al-Shabab are different groups. See this link...
Al Shabab Fights the Pirates - NYTimes.com

B: thats two groups temporarily fighting for turf :)

A: Yes, but your evidence of US creating al-Shabab is the pirates. But if they are different groups, then the evidence is incorrect.

B: they are just part of SAME group.
same philosophy
did you read the drivel on The Time about a US AFGeneral trying to pacify Kenyans?

A: Where is your evidence for this "sameness"? Same philosophy doesn't cut it. The Tamil Tigers have the "same philosophy" of suicide bombing as Al Qeada but it does not make them the :same group".

But the "pacifying of the Kenyans" really proves nothing. It does not directly link to your claim. There could be many reasons why they would want to "pacify the Kenyans"...

B: no. Read the links I provided and the times report also says Al-Shabab is part of al-quaida

A: So we are back to square one, as far as corroborating evidence goes...

B: Like saving their proteges

A: But your claim that the US was DIRECTLY involved in the formation of al-Shabab not via Al-Shabab being the "proteges" of Al-Qaeda. Remember you said you saw US forces traning them.

B: in the same page is the article "Former Ambassador: Look Beyond Garissa Attack To See Progress in Kenya"

A: Are you now modifying your claim?

B: he is advocating bullshit

A: "advocating bullshit" is not evidence that the US created al-Shabab.

B: You think we in india have no experience with the same bullshit by US to save its protege pakistan - the terror central? LOL

A: So we are back to square one, no corroborating evidence.

B: so without corrobarating evidence west will do NOTHING?

A: It's not a matter of who will do what, I am merely interested in your claim that the US created al-shabab. You have taken me to Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Kenya and Pakistan with all your links but still no direct evidence.

B: hallo?

A: At best all you have shown is that is is something that the US may POSSIBLY have done, given what they have done elsewhere, but "possibility" does not prove that it was "probable".

B: so what direct evidence or corroboration did you have to Iraqu WMD? yet west attacked based on lies and destroyed a prosperous Nation. Same thing with Libya. What was this Arab Spring but a CIA operation to destabilise North frica that was peaceful?
waspossiblity of WMD with NO EVIDENCEand FULL KNOWLEGDE it is not there enough to attacka country?

A: So your defence of having no evidence to back up your claim is to bring up previous cases of people making claims with no evidence?? I find the logic very hard to follow..

B: it is called "prrof based on previous action' an acceptable prima facie evidence even under British law :)

we can show a HUNDRED instances of western involvement based on lies

I know what happened to me when I started zeroing in on the perpetrators of the first action in western planned drama of genocide in Rwanda. LOL

A: That is not the issue that we are discussing.You make a SPECIFIC claim that the US created al-Shabab and indeed added another claim that you actually witnessed this traning in Somalia. Yet all I have seen so far is some rather far fetched and tenuous arguments...

So if "A" lies about "B", it follows that "A" also lies about C, D,...ad infinitum???

B: I stand by that
ask any british lawyer what "previous conduct"means in law. i am a lawyer

A: It does not matter what you "stand by" - what matters is the evidence you can bring up to support your claim. I guess we can conclude that, aht the moment, you do not have any.

B: not just one off instance but a series spanning decades if not centuries

so for west they need "evidence" when they want to deny and they need just lies when they want to act?Thats not logic

Do you know the numbers killed by western planned actions with only aim of furthering their exploitation of people and nature?

A: I am asking for independent reports of what you have claim. Whether the US denies it or not, it another issue. Note that the US was not able to hide behind the Iraqi WMD lies for long. If they are involved in the formation of al-Shabab, the evidence will come out.

B: Al-Shabab is just ONE of many ADMITTED transgressions

A: who "admitted" to thwe Al Shabab transgressions...

B: well i have to search my reports. There is one in which i expressed aprehension that this sort of training will backfire. i was shooed by an american above me LOL
my dear A!! di you read my sentence? please revisit again?

A: Great, I look forward to hearing from you on this.
revisit what?

B: Al-Shabab is just ONE of many ADMITTED transgressions
taliban, alquaida, IS and many many rebellions in frica and South america was spawned in the west. And it is admitted.

A: what do you mean by " admitted transgressions". Who "admitted"to it?
Again, no direct evidence for al-Shabab??

B: We in India had the same idiots try to create a party to destabilise India without knowing indian ethos or culture. they failed

A: Now, India. Back to Al-Shabab please.

B: so according to you taliban, alquaida, IS and many many rebellions are passe?

A: Paul Tobin Oh sorry. you promised to come back later on this. Do let me lknow as I am getting tired to this going around in circles.

B: read that article by the american and tell me whether it is part carrots and part threat

Later yes
you forget i am retired now. i have to go through 20 years' papers to find that one report

did you read the bullshit by that american THREATENING KENYANS against action against al-shabab? why should USA threaten a wronged country?

Oh by the way i forgot that the US was collaborating with the terrorist jihadi bunch by sending an american CIA spy to spy for them so that they can attack india on 26/11. For them 20 westerners killedwas mere collateral damage.

the west did try again. but this time west had no control over Government and they were shown the middle finger and they stopped
so don't you think it is illogical that when ALL the terror groups in existence since 60s are of western creation, al-shabab ALONE is different. why is it the oddman out?

A you did not say why al-shabab is different and lovable than the other riff-raff terror groups created by the west to enhance the neo-colonialist agenda of the west and to destabilise the non-western world. But the idiots will realise their folly when the first (of many) dirty bombs start exploding in the west. It is a folly to think west is insulated and they can do anything everywhere else. already Britain is on the way to becoming Britainistan. Many European countries are being islamised and some areas in Northern Europe are already no-go area for westerners. Thats birds coming home to roost. Even now there is time. India will survive despite western sabotage. so will china and russia.

A: when did I say Al-Shabab is "lovable"???

You wrote: " ALL the terror groups " so you are saying that Hezbollah, Tamil Tigers, Jemaah Islamiyah in Southeast Asia, Abu Sayaf in the Philippines, Hamas are all "western creations"????

C: there are no "birds coming home to roost". Terrorism is terrorism, whether religiously motivated or otherwise. There are no excuses for terrorism

it's a conspiracy, man. the juice did it.

B: As for Tamil Tigerscheck norwegian attempts at supporting them :)
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