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Saturday, July 06, 2024

Why are some women so negative about the "picking up women" school of thought?

From roughly a decade ago (which doesn't exactly answer the question and also ignores the evidence on female attitudes to casual sex):

Brandon Smietana's answer to Why are some women so negative about the 'picking up women' school of thought? - Quora

"Pick up artist techniques were developed by studying the behavior of men who are successful with women, not by asking women what they want. In general the behavior that attracts the most women is also the behavior that repels the most women.

The majority of women are not negative about PUA at all. However, reactions range from disgust at the idea that men might be interested in trying to sleep with women (eeewww icky heterosexual sex!) to a raunchy interest in the personal exploits of fedora wearing playboys.

Most of the negativity associated with PUA seems to result from fact that we live in a society that demonizes male sexuality and glorifies female sexuality. We live in a society where Sex in the City is good and 50 Shades of Grey is good but where men are taught to be ashamed of themselves for becoming more attractive to the opposite sex.

If you are a man and you work out and dress too well, you will be accused of being gay. If a women wears makeup to be more attractive its "liberating" but if a man practicea social skills for dealing with women, he is "manipulating women". If a man has an affair, he is evil but if a wife has an affair she is just being sexually liberated and its her husbands fault for not meeting her emotional needs.

The stigma against PUA reflects the deep ambivalence towards gender and prevalence of sexual double standards in American culture.

Men have been much slower to adapt to changing sexual standards than women and the emergence of PUA is a delayed response to the waves of female sexual liberation that have occurred over the past sixty years. PUA reflects a return to a primitive paleosexual sexual stratification.

PUA peaked about ten years ago and the seduction community has since moved on and fragmented. Mystery Method fell out of favor because it only works on women with Type B personality clusters. I.E., it only works on women with Narcissistic, Borderline, Antisocial, Hysterical, or other personality disorders. Manipulative, ad-hoc NLP methodologies largely fell out of favor.

Contemporary pick-up artists communities such as "sosuave" emphasize working out, dressing extremely well and being incredibly attractive. Men are realizing that women are incredibly shallow, impulsive and often decide within 5 seconds whether to sleep with a "hot guy" just by looking at him. Heterosexual men are responding by beginning to reclaim a hyper sexualized masculine fashion from the gay community...

When liberated from patriarchal sexual norms female sexuality seems to converge to male sexuality, but cultural understanding of sexual relationship lags actual behavior by 40 years. Studies show that women have the same hard coded visceral, visual sexual physiological response as men, but the social constraints preventing women from acting have been relaxed.

I think the evolution of the pick-up artist community also reflects the collapse of the patriarchal family system. Marriage is declining in the US and will be eliminated as an institution within two generations at the current rate

The number of children burn out of wedlock is increasing dramatically...

Men are waking up and realizing that having a good job and being a provider is not an effective strategy anymore for attracting women.

Patriarchal societies emphasize a man's earning ability and ability to provide for a family above other characteristics. Culturally men still believe many of the patriarchal myths such as "If I bought a BMW women would find me attractive" but wealthy and successful men are finding that money does not earn the level of sexual success they had been promised. The disillusionment is setting in and filtering down. Many men are opting for "work life balance" and lower wage positions that offer more free time and flexibility over the highly paid and demanding positions in the corporate hierarchy they had previously chosen under the patriarchal system.

Men are simply opting out at the same time women are entering the corporate hierarchy and told to "lean in", with a corresponding drop in female life expectancy and happiness.

As women enter the corporate hierarchy, they are no longer dependent on men. They have their own cars and apartments. Women choose to date more attractive or sexually enticing men over men with earning ability. In Southern California its common to see female managers at Sony in Culver City wine bars blow off successful BMW driving business owners while making sexually solicitations to broke actors and Calvin Klein models.

The emergence of PUA reflects a fundamental shift in women's sexual selection away from provider "Beta Males" who built western civilian and a shift to a preference for the dangerous, sexually evocative, violent, narcissistic, attractive "Alpha Male" arch-type.

The media stereotype in Jersey Shore and Desperate Housewives is that violent aggressive men are sexually desirable. Alpha males get laid, Beta males get divorced.

The most popular genre of women's literature, such as 50 Shades of Grey and Twilight are fantasies where an average women is sexually ravished by a dominant alpha male. Twenty studies over the last thirty years show that 60% of women now have rape fantasies with a median frequency of once per month.

50 Shades of Grey is representative as the best selling novel in the largest, most popular genre of women's literature. 50 Shades of Grey outsold all other books in 2012, selling over 70 million units. In comparison fewer than 100 literary titles each year sell over 100k units. The women's erotic ebook market is $1.8 billion per year and non-fiction ebook sales are $480 million per year. Women's erotic fiction is three times larger than the non-fiction market and the best selling category in women's erotic fiction is rape fantasies.

This is another aspect of western sexual ambivalence. Women are taught that "all men are potential rapists" and conditioned to live in pervasive fear of sexual violation, while simultaneously fetishising and fantasizing about being sexually ravished by pirates, werewolves, billionaire vampires and other dangerous alluring alpha male archetypes.

Simultaneously men have been been chemically and culturally feminized to the point of being sexually undesirable. Studies have shown massive decline in sperm count and testosterone male levels over the past 50 years, from multiple causes including wide spread estrogen mimicking chemicals in plastics...

Men have been culturally feminized by the western demonization of male sexuality. Men are now taught they are potential rapists and that they are guilty of terrorizing women everywhere with the threat of rape by merely having a penis. "Teach men not to rape" is the new white guilt, the idea that individual men as a class should share in collective guilt for the actions of a small minority of men.

Men are not supposed to be too fashionable, too well dressed, too toned or attractive or they are labeled as homosexual. Men are taught that women are not attracted to the male body and that only the female body is beautiful (contrast to the Romans, who gloried the male body). In western societies men are taught that only female virginity has value and men constantly receive the message that they are only valuable to women because of their wallets.

PUA and the "red pill" started as philosophies which reject the demonization of male sexually and began to define a new sex positive masculinity.

The negativity projected at male sexuality is difficult to see because it is so pervasive in our culture. Imagine instead of signs that said "Teach Men Not to Rape" instead imagine signs said "Teach Blacks Not to Steal". We recognize the later as racism but the former is still a popular and acceptable slogan for posters on our college campuses. Gender based prejudice is still very deeply ingrained in western culture.

The United States is 50% above median for gender hostility..

Working in technology, I have met several very successful, wealthy beta males who refuse to date American women and will only date women from Scandinavian countries and they always cite reasons related to what I would classify as "gender hostility".

One particular, tall attractive guy had a $5000/month apartment in Santa Monica. He said "Its expensive *shrugs* but what else am I going to spend the money on?" and told me "Dont date girls west of Downtown LA. Its not worth it.", "I only date girls from <Scandinavian country XYZ>."

Men today have three choices, they can opt out and become gay, they can become wealthy and date women from countries with greater gender equality and less hostility towards men, or they can "learn the game". I think most of the hostility some women have with PUA, is that they do not understand what is required of men to be successful in dating.

Men need to turn on the television. They need to watch Jersey Shore. They need to realize that this is the image of masculinity that our culture conditions women to be sexually attracted to. That is the "Red Pill"...

Pick up artist techniques were developed by studying the behavior of men who are successful with women, not by asking women what they want.

In summary, PUA is reactionary. It is simply a direct response to changes in western cultural and sexual behavior. PUA type methodologies simply do not exist and are not necessary in societies with traditional patriarchal family systems...

Women are attracted to taller men, but in fact being taller is negatively correlated with sexual success.

This by itself self is enough to establish that anything women say about dating needs to be taken with grain of salt and needs to be backed up by data. Examining the data, in most cases, you should act and behave in exactly the opposite way women will tell you to behave.

When you ask a women anything about dating, the response you get is regurgitated cultural non-sense that has no basis in human behavior or data. Its not enough to ask people what they want, you have measure what they actually do.

If you ask women they will tell you penis size is not important but that height is important. However, penis size is twice as important as height if you measure the actual correlation coefficients.

Women also claim that they want a "nice guy". However, men who rank highly in "agreeableness" personality trait have fewer sexual partners than men who are disagreeable. Women are more likely to sleep with disagreeable men than with "nice guys"...

In Los Angeles I have literally heard an Asian business owner of a 5 million dollar a year company say "I am rich now. So where are the girls?". I know attractive, ivy league educated men who make +150k a year that seem to only be attractive to obese women and I have met $12/hour bartenders who regularly sleep with multiple different attractive women each week.

In fact, for men under 30 who are very successful with women (have slept with at least one different women per year since age 18), their median income is only half of the income of men who have slept with only 5-10 women over that period.

The reality is that it is extremely difficult to leverage money into sexual success. Money makes women want to marry or date you and makes them want to get you to buy them things, it does not make women want to sleep with you.

Also, women hate intelligent men. They dont sleep with them. This is a graph of "odds of having had intercourse" against intelligence. Intercourse frequency peaks for men of IQ 90 and falls of a cliff for men over 130 IQ.

Construction workers will have twice the number of median life time sexual partners as software engineers. Truck drivers will have 50% more median life time sexual partners than software engineers. Women are sleeping with construction workers and truck drivers, not software engineers. Intelligence is a burden, not an advantage in dating.

Women are not attracted to intelligence in men. Many women are actually intimated by intelligent men. If someone asks you what you did in college and you say "mathematics" the most common response from women in Los Angles is "Oh... You must be smart *awkward silence*/ends conversations/tries to get away".

A guy on reddit recently posted an article about how he "wanted to turn gay" after going on a date with a girl from OkCupid whose only interests were listed as "shopping" and "reality television". People like this are actually the majority of people in American and the majority of women that men must be socially prepared for...

Men have to work harder than women to obtain and maintain optimal body fat percentage for physical attractiveness. Women can be attractive at 25% body fat, but men are required to maintain below 12% body fat in order to have muscle striations or a "six pack"...

One ironic implication of women's attraction to socially dominant men, is that many women are attracted to men who ignore them or talk over them (which are aspects of social dominance)...

Another ironic aspect of the female attraction to male social dominance is research showing that the best predictor of a women ending up in a domestic violence shelter, was having previously been in a domestic violence shelter. Women who are abused seemed to move from one abusive relationship into another abusive relationship.

The researcher drilled down further and determined that women in domestic violent shelters were statistically more likely to be attracted to men with violent personalities (a negative aspect of social dominance). Furthermore, women who were attracted to physically dominant or violent men were more likely to become victims of domestic violence, than women who are not attracted to violent men.  

Another aspect of women's attraction to violent aggressive males is women's sexual interest in mass murders, serial killers and terrorists. In the United States after Dzhokhar Tsarnaev bombed the Boston marathon, injuring 16 people, women on Twitter exploded with "Jahar is hot. He can blow me up with babies"

There was a recent media controversy at a Boston prison when a violent gang leader impregnated four female prison guards...

"Serial killers, in his view, are cases of alpha males that tend to attract women."...

In summary, frat boys and bros are normative for American male sexual behavior and females have a preference for sexually normative male arch-types.

Pop-feminists refuse to acknowledge that women are sexually responsive to normative male archetypes presented on television, despite overwhelming quantitative evidence. However, academic feminists in the field of post colonial gender studies have purposed the idea of "hegemonic masculinity" to account for the sexual success associated with men adopting culturally sanctioned dominate male arch types.

Under the feminist theory of "hegemonic masculinity" theory, as women become more economically liberated and less economically dependent on men, their attraction (or domination) to the Bro increases. The shift of males to physical, psychological (PUA, emotional affect strategies) and sexual domination (deploying sexual capital strategies) tactics occurs as males are no longer able to obtain to obtain sex through economic subjugation of women under phallocentric capitalism (AKA spending money on them).

What is interesting however, is that women seem less happy under the new dating hierarchy than under the patriarchal family system. Before 1970s women were happier than men as a group, but men are now subjectively more content than women and the gap has been increasing for the last forty years...

In other-words, there is a growing body of evidence that men have been the primary benefactors of women's sexual and economic liberation, while women's happiness has declined, despite improvements of objective measures."

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