"I am not ashamed of paying for sex. I pay for food. I pay for clothing. I pay for shelter. Why should I not also pay for sex?"

Recent extended correspondence:

me: See http://articles.latimes.com/2006/sep/21/world/fg-bride21

One of the benefits of globalization. It's not just us [in Sg]!:)

I don't think i've ever asked you this, but would you mail-order?

gssq: If I could mail-order a very-good fit wife, maybe. But there's a matching problem.

It's just like in theory enlightened despotism is the best form of government. But how do you ensure the despot is enlightened?

me: the matching problem is easier to resolve than you think
a) research
b) try before you buy
c) yank her passport and kick her back - as you can see from the article the power imbalance [represents] an inherent return policy of sorts:)

Put it this way, treat it like you're buying a new car or a new computer. Surely you will study/try out/explore/talk first rather than [just] telling the agent: "give me this one"

And pick a reputable agent that allows you take a look first.

Although I suspect you, like me, are looking for qualities that are very unlikely to be found in the kind of person who would end up on the auction block.

gssq: Har.
a) How? Google them?
b) Har? Can ah
c) I'm looking for a wife, not a car, computer or slave

It's cheaper to hire a cook, maid and wh0re than get a wife like this anyway

me: a) They fly you there for trips. In most cases I'm told you can talk to them a bit via email or even letter correspondence first. If you get a good agent he'll let you kick the tyres before you buy - that's where the Internet comes in (ie. forums and such - admittedly [the feedback is] not quite as detailed as sammyboy from a cursory examination)

b) Conjugally, I am not sure (doubt it), but you can check them out first in other ways - see a)


c) A wife is needed to drive you, calculate your taxes (okay I doubt my parents' marital model applies here), and obviously the kind you purchase, while not exactly a slave, is a bit closer to the maid paradigm than the [traditional courtship-based] life partner paradigm.

Cook - according to the net the median salary of a sous chef is about $20k in SG (I assume per annum) http://www.payscale.com/research/SG/Job=Sous_Chef/Salary

Maid - standard live-in maid pay scales are about $1000 per month (salary + levy + plane ticket (it's market practice to pay for a plane ticket back once a year) + agency cost + 5k immigration bond which in this case we assume you'll never get back)

wh0re - standard overnight is about $300-$800 depending on the quality, location, context etc, so let's say you have conjugal bliss twice a week, that makes it $3-6k a month.

Add it up, and we're talking about recurring $40k per annum, excluding the costs of grocery, increased utility [bills], and other daily expenses, etc etc.

A wife who can deliver a recent standard of all 3 may need some research, but the costs of most mail-orders I've seen is pretty much a one off $15-30k type deal, and let's say throw in another $5-10k or so for set-up costs, wardrobe, wedding, etc, and from then on it's just providing for [live-in] expenses in aeternam.

gssq: I doubt the kind you buy can drive....

Find me a Viet wife who can cook like a sous chef?
I rarely hear of maids going back every year.

You get a different WL each time. Vs the same wife all the time. And I don't necessarily want overnight.

And what's the other expenses of a wife?

me: The point i'm trying to make is that you get a generalist for cheaper - *much* cheaper - than hiring specialists in each of the three fields you mention.

And don't diss Viet cooking:)

I hear of employees paying for maid tickets back, or giving in cash if they don't want to go back. Not super common, but not unheard of either.

You may not want overnight, but you essentially *get* overnight for a wife. You trade in variety for consistency and availability (although utility functions differ, I get the impression you would prize the latter more than the former)

unless you're easily besotted/bullied into buying LV handhags for her, most of the other wifely expenses in a mail order context are quite insignificant (apart from grocery, utility costs, and daily expenses).

Hell you even get tax deductions!
(And childcare/offspring costs are more without a wife - single parents dont' get a lot of deductions/options nuclear families do)

gssq: I don't want children. Or a "wife" who's just a maid/cook/wh0re

me: So you shouldn't have said "i can hire a maid/cook/wh0re for cheaper" in the first place, which is demonstrably wrong.

And for a mail order wife you CAN get more than a maid/cook/wh0re - with research and matching, which is patently simpler than the normal quest for a r/ship.

gssq: Cook gives better goods. And you don't need a sous chef. Wh0re gives better service and variety. And I don't need overnight.
If you don't buy things for the wife, even a Viet might leave you.

me: as i said, don't diss vietnamese cooking, but realistically, even a school canteen aunty will charge at least $10k a year to be your full-time cook

wh0re - not necessarily better service. Even if you don't want overnight, one pop for $100-150 twice a week still sets you back about $15k a year.

hold her passport. and you don't have to buy as many things as you would a normal wife. just threaten to cut off her remittances back home.

gssq: I'll get a tiffin service.
Viets can only cook Viet food

How do you know the Viet will have good service like a WL? Ceteris paribus...

That's even more of a mockery of a marriage than normal mail order brides.
And she can run to the police and you can go to jail.

me: How much is a tiffin service in SG, actually?

And in a tiffin service it's primarily uni-cuisine (ie. it's chinese tiffin or indian tiffin, i don't know of any decent tiffin services that do both, if you do pls let me know. Or if you start one)

Because the variance of WL service is huge. [With a mail-order] it's not necessarily better service ([although] I'll admit that at least with a WL you can move on [if it sucks, whereas] with a mail-order, unless there's try-before-buy you can't get very far)

eh.. no. the police can't stop you from cutting off her remittances. And if you know what you're doing she wont' have the wherewithal to find a divorce lawyer. And from anecdotal evidence, the police can't do very much if you aren't physically abusive, but just keep her passport locked away. And don't forget, she'll probably be here on a social visit pass of some sort which needs your support in order to maintain (unless you're dumb enough to get her PR or citizenship from the get-go).

gssq: $5 a meal? I'll start a tiffin service
Viet wife is all Viet food. Unless you make her cook non-Viet food.

Upset women have ways of escalating and aggravating and making your life miserable, as you know. And I don't want a slave. What's the point

me: It's probably easier to get her to learn to cook non-Viet food than have multiple tiffin services for multiple cuisines. Besides can always eat out what.

Anyway even you must concede the ridiculous point that it's cheaper to pay for 3 specialists on a regular scale, rather than buy one generalist up front, even after controlling for differences in quality/quantity of service. (should point out you potentially get way more quantity than a wh0re, theoretically)

If you consider the potential of getting some additional holistic synergy / extra emotional liao from the generalist, it really increases the value proposition.

I'm not saying you have to abuse/mistreat her. I'm just saying that mail-order is one avenue for getting what you want, if you really feel that you are too sian to go through the normal relationship acquisition process. Not saying you have to settle.

gssq: I doubt there will be holistic synergy from treating her like an investment
Why will I get what I want from mail-order?!

me: They're *all* investments. *heavily* I'm surprised this point even needs mentioning.

to recap - you say you are ready for a long-term r/ship, but you are unable to go through the process of acquiriing one for a variety of reasons

I'm just saying that a mail-order gives you the possibility of attaining one in a process that is relatively less random, and hassling (repeated failures and multiple shots in the dark) than normal avenues.

gssq: If you view a relationship as an investment, your investment will evaporate

me: Look at our parents' generation. Viewing marriage as a long-term equity investment works out pretty damn well for them, even if they don't use those terms of discourse.

Anyway even if you don't want to view it in NPV terms, why not view it as an alternative relationship sourcing mechanism with just more up front costs? You can still potentially find your caring/loving/whatever partner, with a little bit of legwork, in a process that's potentially less taxing/onerous/frustrating than the normal one which you have made clear no longer works for you.

[Ed: HWMNBN: "btw, other than HWMNBN i don't know what tags you want to use.

was torn between conversations, economics, family, food, life, muppets,
observations, rape, sex, slavery, and women."]